right diameter bullet for 44 mag rifle

NorthBorder

NorthBorder

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I took my Henry 44 mag out for its first range trip today. I was bench rest shooting at 50 yards. It did not look good. I am shooting a .430 diameter SNS 240 gr coated SWC. At 50 yards 3 out of 5 rounds might stay on a pie plate. I was shooting them on top of 23 grains H110. I then switched to some that I had loaded with IMR 4227 and the group tightened up to about 3-4 inches at 50 yards.
I am looking around the web for something with a bit larger diameter and found Oregon Trail 240 gr SWC that have a .431 bullet diameter. I have never loaded for a 44 magnum rifle before and from what I've read they generally require a larger diameter cast bullet. I would like to know if that .431 diameter bullet would make a significant difference in my groups so would like to hear from ya'll with experience before I spend the money on a box of 500 rounds. In the mean time I am gonna load up some with Hornady 240 gr xtps and see what that is like.
Thanx
 
I have the carbine .44 Henry and have good luck with 2400 and the 200/240gr XTPs.
I don't shoot groups but we buy cheap bags of small apples, 2"-3" diameter and sprinkle them on the 50, 75 & 100yd berms.
50yds from the bench they are pretty easy targets.
I have never loaded H110 but what I've read is it usually needs to be near max load before it starts to shine.
 
AJC1 said:
Cast for carbines is reported as being good at .431. The fact that the pistol and rifle are different has me avoiding the loading.
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My Rugers are the opposite: .431” for the SBH and .430” for the M77/44. A lot of cast I’ve tried in the M77/44 has actually been good at .429”, just like jacketed.
I’m not a fan of W296 (H110) so I’m totally guessing powder choice might be part of the problem. I will say, my Ruger M77/44 does really like both 2400 and IMR 4227.
 
Yep, slug your barrel. It's the only way you'll know for sure what diameter will work best.

Most people aren't aware that the SAAMI groove spec for .44 mag rifle is different than that for handguns. For rifle it's .431" + .002" but for handguns it's .429" + .002". So your barrel could potentially have a .433" groove diameter and still be within spec.

My Rossi 92 in .44 mag groups best with .433" cast bullets, but .432" works almost as well. With .431" groups start to open up noticeably, and with .429" it's terrible with significant leading.
 
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I would try 22.3gr of H-110 with a 240gr jacketed bullet and see how that goes.
Hornady's are .430" I would try those.
 
FWIW; one consideration is SAAMI lists .431" groove diameter for 44 Magnum rifle barrels and .429" for handguns. I tried some .430" bullets with only fair performance (my 44 Mag. handgun bullets). I loaded my 44 Puma with .432".-433" cast bullets. Never tried any jacketed bullets but got good accuracy with Ranch Dog's 240 gr. and 265 gr. RNFP bullets cast from about 13 BHN alloy (I usually got better accuracy from cast bullets in all my 44 Magnums)...
 
GeoDudeFlorida said:
There is a thread from earlier this year by @Bearded Phil about his trials and tribulations with the Henry lever rifle, but I think his was a .357? A quick forum search should bring it up.
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That was with my 30-30.

A cerrosafe cast of the muzzle end gave me .310 for the groove diameter so I'm going to be loading .311" sized home casts, also gas checked, although I haven't gotten around to it yet. Still playing with my new 38-55 win.

I will say in general my cerrosafe casts of my Henry rifles generally come out .001" over what the nominal groove diameter "should" be.

For example

30-30 I got .310"
357 mag I got .358"
45-70 I got .459"

Except this new 38-55, on that I got .379" which is right where Henry says it should be.

I don't load 44mag but like Geodude said it could be H110 isn't working well with that bullet in that charge range OR it could be the .430" diamter is a bit small (my initial guess would be that it is).

Personally I would try a 431" or .432" diameter cast and see if groups tighten up dramatically.

If those diameter casts are hard to find and/or expensive commercially you may be relegated to staying with .430" and a powder that can be downloaded easily so you can group well. That or staying with jacketed bullets.
 
Bearded Phil said:
That was with my 30-30.

A cerrosafe cast of the muzzle end gave me .310 for the groove diameter so I'm going to be loading .311" sized home casts, also gas checked, although I haven't gotten around to it yet. Still playing with my new 38-55 win.

I will say in general my cerrosafe casts of my Henry rifles generally come out .001" over what the nominal groove diameter "should" be.

For example

30-30 I got .310"
357 mag I got .358"
45-70 I got .459"

Except this new 38-55, on that I got .379" which is right where Henry says it should be.

I don't load 44mag but like Geodude said it could be H110 isn't working well with that bullet in that charge range OR it could be the .430" diamter is a bit small (my initial guess would be that it is).

Personally I would try a 431" or .432" diameter cast and see if groups tighten up dramatically.

If those diameter casts are hard to find and/or expensive commercially you may be relegated to staying with .430" and a powder that can be downloaded easily so you can group well. That or staying with jacketed bullets.
Click to expand...
Or you could powdercoat and size them.
 
My wife’s Marlin slugged .433 and it does “ok” with 300 grain XTPs. Nothing special but WAY better than any .430” 240gr bullet could do. I never did get around to ordering a special mold so we just play around with the heavy XTPs. This was at 75 yards with a mild load of IMR4227. 5DA78249-1911-4C48-9E84-14850E2ADACB.jpeg
 
I would not have expected any different results than what you experienced with the H110 load.

Most factory coated lead bullets are actually quite soft, and being as much as .003” undersized doesn’t help.
I’ve owned two Marlin M1894 .44mags. Neither shot decent with.429”-.430” cast bullets. Horrible actually… However.430” Hornady jacketed shot well in the 1970’s era rifle. Nothing shot well in the 2019 vintage rifle though it was a beauty to behold! But what a horrible “fuzzy” bore.

My best results are with a .432-433” bullet. I have a Lee 200gr RFN mold that casts to .434”. Unsized and Tumble Lubed over 5.0gr of Clays, it shot 2-3” at 50yds. I sold it to a cowboy action shooter who was pleased with it.

I cast a hard 255gr Keith Style SWC and size .431” and load over #2400. It’s quite accurate from my S&W M69 4” and does what I need it to.
I find powder coating to only be useful in eliminating lube fouling and used with light charges of fast burning powders to reduce soot. For accuracy, I’m sticking with either SPG or NRA 50/50 lube and gaschecked bullets of appropriate hardness.
Bullseye, Unique, and #2400 are favorites as too is LongShot.
 
AJC1 said:
Or you could powdercoat and size them.
Click to expand...

Sure, it's hard to say whether someone who's not already casting their own would pursue coating commercial cast bullets on top of paying through the nose for them but that is a possibility.

If you cast your own and mess up the coating, no bid deal, melt them down and cast some more. If you had to buy them and you messed it up... well...
 
Bearded Phil said:
Sure, it's hard to say whether someone who's not already casting their own would pursue coating commercial cast bullets on top of paying through the nose for them but that is a possibility.

If you cast your own and mess up the coating, no bid deal, melt them down and cast some more. If you had to buy them and you messed it up... well...
Click to expand...
It's a solution for a problem of availability of the correct size... if one can just buy the correct size that's a no brainer. Creative functional solutions to problems is my jam.
 
Try these:

http://www.rozedist.com/mm5/merchan...Product_Code=R177-E&Category_Code=ZB-44Magnum

They are .431 Jacketed Soft Point bullets. They aren’t pretty, but they outshoot every bullet I have tried in my rifles. If you want them at .430…buy a Lee Sizer in .429 diameter and spritz a little lube in the bullets and run them through the sizer. Spring back will get you to a very consistent .430.

All of my best 44 molds drop at .433-.434. I then coat them and size them back to .432 or .433.

Sad thing about 44 is their bore diameters are all over the place in rifles. Newer pistols seem to be more consistent.
 
Typical 100 yard groups from an over bored rifle.
 

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The Henry has the standard 1-20" pistol twist, so I would not expect the bore discrepancies you see with the usual slow twist (1-30" or 1-38") rifles.
 
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