Rimfire accuracy...bolt vs. semi

[TFin04]

I know for the most part a semi gun of the same quality as a bolt gun will be less accurate. A lot of this is shooter skill as well, but it's pretty much accepted that the bolt guns are more accurate.

I want to buy a fun rimfire rifle and set it up as a target gun and maybe even some varmint shooting as well.

The 10/22 obviously draws me in because of the aftermarket support.

I had a semi Savage 64 but sold it because feeding reliability was really getting on my nerves.

My question is this...can I get a 10/22 with aftermarket barrel to shoot as accurate (or more accurately) than a bull barrel bolt action Savage? Those are the two guns I'm considering right now.

I know 22's aren't the most accurate round as it is, wind plays a big factor and the farther you push them the harder it is to maintain groups. Just looking for some advice here...

 

[skinewmexico]

My bolt action Savage in 17 HMR easily shoots as well at some $1000 10/22s I've shot against at the range. Not that it matters, since a 17 is about a 1000 times more accurate than a 22.

 

[cracked butt]

My question is this...can I get a 10/22 with aftermarket barrel to shoot as accurate (or more accurately) than a bull barrel bolt action Savage?

Not a chance unless you stick 10x as much money into the 10/22 than you originally purchased it for (you know, replace every Ruger part with a Volquartsen part).

 

[rangerruck]

I hate to say this, but you could spend a 1000 bucks,on top of buying your 10.22, and not get as accurate as an old remmy , winny, or mossy, from the 40's through the 70's. After that, a marlin 7000 or 2000 will smoke a ruger all day today and tommorrow. You had a bad mag in that Savage by the way. And the new Savages will be more accurate as well. if you want an accurate semi auto, just jump right to a Volquartzen, or send your 10.22 to one of the tuners at the top of the rimfirecentral page, and have them do about 1000 bucks, in tweeks and upgrades.
But for that money, you could buy a mossy 12 or such, with a set of sights, win a remmy or winny in an auction, then go to a gunstore or pawnshop, and get a used Marlin in both 7000 or 2000, and get them all , for the same money you will spend on the Volquartzen, or a Ruger spacegun.

 

[rangerruck]

By the way, I have a 10.22 with about 300 bucks, in extra mags, goodies, and some internal mods, and that was modest mods. It is fun and pretty accurate, but I've got a mod 60 that I bought at a pawnshop, for 75 bucks, that is world class accurate, and it had no mods, and no ruger that anyone brought to the range could even get close. To whit; these are 100 YARD GROUPS!!!

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a284/pmullineaux/mod60016.jpg










go back and look closely at the american eagle group; it is a 5 shot group in one hole, with one
flyer!

 

[TFin04]

Thanks for the info. The savage I had was accurate, but I couldn't get the thing to stop jamming. I sold it to fund other projects anyway.

You guys pretty much confirmed what I thought I was going to hear. I want to set up a cheaper rimfire for range plinking, some squirrel hunting and maybe even some prairie dog hunting. I hear a lot of guys start out with a rimfire for the close range P-Dog's before breaking out the bigger guns. Doesn't scare them away as quickly.

I'd love to mess with a 17HMR, but the price of ammo vs 22 just isn't worth it to me.

Out of curiosity, what is the effective range of 17HMR?

 

[Wheeler44]

When we shoot .22's we shoot at a target stand with swinging targets. 50 to 75 yards. We shoot whatever anyone brings and trade around shooting everybodies guns. When we are geting close to the end and every shot counts (for bragging rights) who ever is behind will wait and use the last of their ammo shooting through an old (I hate endorsing any brand on the internet) Remington model 514 bolt action with an ivory bead front sight. Yeah it has a crappy stamped sheet metal trigger, yeah it's just a single shot, yeah it's probably worth about $75.00 and yeah when every shot counts it is the choice of each and everyone at our little range. Strange that a cheap little gun from way back when will out shoot 10-22's, Jaegers etc.

 

[alemonkey]

If you get a good 10/22 it can be pretty accurate. Mine is minute of beer can @ 100 yards with factory sights. That may well be an aberration, though.

 

[sarduy]

well why don't you go with something like this.
Savage Mark II .22 or .17 (i would go with the .22)

 

[TFin04]

Bolt gun it is. I'm a big fan of them anyway.

I know I need both eventually (17 and 22), but for now, I'm trying to get a gun built up to take prairie dog hunting with me in the spring.

I have a nice Savage 10FP in 223 rem that is going to be my 'main' gun out there, but if I can get a few dogs with a rifle that is cheaper to feed I would like to do that as well. The guys who shoot dogs a lot say they can take quite a few out to 100 yards with a rimfire and it doesn't scare them away like a centerfire rifle would. I'd like to start on that gun, then move up to the 223 when I can't reach them anymore.

So, with shooting varmints in mind, 22LR or 17HMR? I'll be keeping my shots within 100 yards probably. I know the 17 is a better performer, but the cost of 22 is just so tempting.

Any input from people who have done this sort of thing? It looks like some guys are even taking coyote's with a 17. I obviously don't know enough about this caliber, I didn't think that was doable.

Thanks!

 

[ArmedBear]

My question is this...can I get a 10/22 with aftermarket barrel to shoot as accurate (or more accurately) than a bull barrel bolt action Savage?

You can build a hell of an accurate 10/22. Depends on how much money you want to throw at it.

This much I will say. Despite the 10/22 now being significantly more expensive than the 60, I would have had to get an aftermarket barrel to get my standard 10/22 to shoot as well as the standard 60. I sold the 10/22 instead; I don't need the money hole a 10/22 can be, just to practice with .22LR. And I don't want a $1000 gun to drag through the rocks chasing after cottontails.

If you really want accuracy for your money, get a bolt gun. If you want an accurate, inexpensive semiauto for practice or small game, get a Marlin 60. If you want a fun shooter, get a .22 lever gun. If you want to play gunsmith, and you don't care about a few hundred bucks here or there, or having to test out each magazine you buy to see if it's any good, get a 10/22.

 

[res45]

I have never punched paper with my $125 Marlin Mod 60 with 3 x 9 x 40 scope out at 100 Yds. but I know I can line up 10 12 ga. hulls on the 100 yrd. berm and hit them 10 out of 10 all day long with cheap bulk ammo. Works for me.

 

[Geronimo45]

If you really want accuracy for your money, get a bolt gun. If you want an accurate, inexpensive semiauto for practice or small game, get a Marlin 60. If you want a fun shooter, get a .22 lever gun.

Those .22 levers are teriffic, for sure. Marlin semis aren't too bad in accuracy... but I have heard that the best price for a highly accurate .22 would be the CZ bolt-action job... 452?

 

[Nomad101bc]

Not at all suprised your older gun is very accurate. I bought a used .22 bolt action Mossberg made in 1956 for 100$ and let me tell you it puts out incredible groupings. I have peep sights on it and its more accurate than the shooter. It feeds hollow points and higher velocity loads without a problem so dont doubt firearms even if they are a little old.

Only complaint for me is its not really designed to have the bolt removed so for cleaning purposes i have to clean from the front.

 

[cracked butt]

Only complaint for me is its not really designed to have the bolt removed so for cleaning purposes i have to clean from the front.

Must be a mossberg M44 where the rear aperture sight gets in the way of removing the bolt? Very nice rifle.

 

[sarduy]

So, with shooting varmints in mind, 22LR or 17HMR? I'll be keeping my shots within 100 yards probably. I know the 17 is a better performer, but the cost of 22 is just so tempting.

if you get a good .22 ammo you can keep up with the .17 i would recommend the .22 CCI Stinger at 1640 fps 32GR for accuracy and power, or the CCI ShotShell #12 Shot that works like a mini shotgun (way too much fun for me)

 

[Nomad101bc]

Yep it is the m44 I love the light trigger pull and distinctive sound the gun has to it.

 

[Don't Tread On Me]

What it depends on is the grade of each type. There are some bolt action rimfires (22) that aren't very accurate at all.


However, most things being equal, the bolt should be more accurate (more consistent lockup, tigher chamber etc....)


The Ruger 10/22 is quite junky. I have one, I know. It is a great blaster. Accurate enough for most uses. I hope that doesn't attract flames. If you are looking for accuracy, look elsewhere. However, you can mod it to the point where ZERO original parts are in use and it will be a tack-driver that can rival most bolt actions with the exception of the upperclass rifles like Anschutz and a couple others. But, you will spend around or over $1,000 doing it. The whole purpose is the "fun" in doing it, or ending up with something kinda-sorta unique or custom. It really isn't, since the same aftermarket parts exist everywhere and just about every conceivable configuration has been made.

If you wanted an accurate autoloader based on the 10/22 design, forget even buying the base rifle - get a Volquartsen from the start. It will be cheaper in the long run, less fuss and will deliever results right away.


A good mix of excellent accuracy, decent price and nowadays long-lost old-world quality is the CZ rifle. Built like rifles USED TO BE. With real steel, not pot metal. Good stocks. Nice fit and finish. While the prices have gone up, they are still a bargain. You can pay a lot for other makes and get 1/10 of the quality.

 

[rangerruck]

if shooting varmints inside of 100 yds, a 22lr is all you will ever need, Even for coyotes, and that is, if you have to only. now the 17hmr is a 22 mag necked down, and a 17mach2 is a 22 stinger necked down. a 17 hmr , zero'd at 100 yds, only rises about 1 inch or less at 50 yds, and is only down by about 3 inches at 150 , and down about 7 to 8 inches , all the way out to 200 yds. Which is simply amazing. A mach 2 zero'd at 100 yds, is down about 4 to 5 inches at 150, and down about 11 to 12 inches at 200 yds.
Problem is, hmr ammo is too expensive now. So I have switched almost exclusively to the mach 2, since ammo is 6 bucks a box or less.
Plus a rifle chambered in mach 2 will also shoot the 17Aguila, which is a true 22lr round necked down, with a 20 grain fmjbt bullet in it, doing about 1900 fps at the muzzle. A mach 2 does about 2200 fps at the muzzle, and a 17hmr is doing 26 to 2700 fps at the muzzle, depending on bbl quality.

 

[9mmepiphany]

i have an Anschutz 1712 bolt action and i really is all they claim to be. i was leanng toward a CZ 452, but the Annie has always been a fantasy rifle from my childhood and there was a X-mas special on them at ISS.

if accuracy is more important than looks, i think the best buy in a bolt action .22lr is the Romanian M-69. i got mine for about $59 at Big 5 awhile back...so i understand they've go up a bit

 

[YodaVader]

My question is this...can I get a 10/22 with aftermarket barrel to shoot as accurate (or more accurately) than a bull barrel bolt action Savage? Those are the two guns I'm considering right now.

I have a Volquartsen and Shilen barreled 10/22. Also in bolt action a CZ452 Special/Trainer and Marlin 925. Used to own a bolt Sako Finnfire Varmint too.

Shooting from a 50 yard benchrest the 10/22s give up nothing to the bolts I have or have owned. The 10/22 barrel from Shilen is an actual match barrel and where the barrels on my factory bolt guns are not. Volquartsen guarantees their barrels of 3/8" 50 yd accuracy with match ammo and proper bedding.

 

[ArmedBear]

Shooting from a 50 yard benchrest the 10/22s give up nothing to the bolts I have or have owned.

Apples and oranges.

A customized gun with an expensive match barrel and other aftermarket parts, none of which are cheap, for what they are, vs. the entry-level CZ trainer, which costs little more than what Ruger now wants for the minute-of-beercan base-model 10/22, or the Marlin 925, which costs $25 LESS?

I'd HOPE you get decent accuracy from what you still call your "10/22".

FWIW 3/8" at 50 would be considered unacceptably poor accuracy in a match-quality bolt gun for benchrest competition.

 

[TFin04]

Thanks for the info guys. I have narrowed it down to a Savage bolt gun with accu trigger.

I'm trying to decide on calibers now.

- 17HMR, while more expensive than than the others, is still a fairly inexpensive caliber in the grand scheme of firearms

- 17HM2 is quite a bit cheaper, but much harder to find. Who knows what the long term for this caliber is...

- 22 is the old standby, should get the job done, but definitely not like the HMR would.

I think for my purposes, I'm going to go with a 22. With some of the better ammo it should do just fine for me.

One last question- Does anyone know where I can find Boyds stocks available for the Savage Mark II? I don't see them on their site and I don't see any stores that sell them. Any help would be great.

 

[YodaVader]

A customized gun with an expensive match barrel and other aftermarket parts, none of which are cheap, for what they are, vs. the entry-level CZ trainer, which costs little more than what Ruger now wants for the minute-of-beercan base-model 10/22, or the Marlin 925, which costs $25 LESS?

There was also a Sako Finnfire included in my original post that you conveniently failed to mention - I'll add that cost me $679 in the 1990s. Even with my 10/22 Deluxe Walnut , bought in 2005 - $249 , Volquartsen muzzleweighted stainless barrel $150 , and $6 bolt buffer I have a liitle over $400. I smooth the hammer myself and that is all the expense I have in that rifle. The CZs pretty much all shoot to the same level of accuracy regardless of Trainer , American or Varmint and I see many of the walnut CZs nearing the $400 mark.

I'd HOPE you get decent accuracy from what you still call your "10/22".

Pretty damn good as a matter of fact!

FWIW 3/8" at 50 would be considered unacceptably poor accuracy in a match-quality bolt gun for benchrest competition.

Regardless , the original poster asked if a 10/22 with aftermarket barrel would be as accurate/ more accurate than a factory Savage heavy barrel bolt gun. He never mentioned a match benchrest bolt rifle.

Here is a gunblast.com review on the heavy barrel Savage 22lrhttp://www.gunblast.com/Savage-MarkIIBV22.htm

Has accuracy results too. From what he was posted I can easily exceed that level of accuracy with either 10/22.

I'm trying to decide on calibers now.

- 17HMR, while more expensive than than the others, is still a fairly inexpensive caliber in the grand scheme of firearms

Here is a 17 HMR Classic that is also tested - it was not a heavy barrel but was a very good shooter.
http://www.gunblast.com/Savage-93R17C.htm

 

[preventec47]

I have a nearly new 14 year old 10/22 stainless and nice scope
with about 500 bullets through it that makes me sick everytime
I shoot it. That s why so few bullets through it. I tried fifteen brands
of bullets and the best it will shoot is 4 inch group at 100 yards with
match ammo. For the last 12 years I shoot mostly the $99 dollar
Walmart Savage Bolt action 22 which is much much more accurate.