RM Vivas Is The Man!! Unbelievable History of my NYPD Model 10. ***Pics***

Discussion in 'Handguns: Revolvers' started by Homerboy, Feb 8, 2021.

  1. Homerboy

    Homerboy Member

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    I found a Find My Grave website that shows he died in 1991 in Florida. Right year of birth and military service but doesn’t mention his NYPD service. I’m going to call the Shield Desk and do a little more digging. I wonder how far up the ladder he went?
     
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  2. Homerboy

    Homerboy Member

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    RM Vivas is the real deal when it comes to NYPD firearms. I’m not quite sure how, but he has actual log books from the Equipment Section where the gun deliveries and the officer’s they sold it to are hand written in the ledger. I don’t know how he unearthed the the newspaper articles. All I found using Google is Hynes’ apparent burial site. He died in 1991.

    I know I’ll never find out any more info, and I am more than happy to know what I know, but I wonder where the gun has been? Was Hynes the only owner? Did his wife keep the gun after he died? Did the kids inherit it and then get rid of it? How many hands did it go through? What are the odds that the gun wound up in a gun shop in NE PA and I would find it, not to mention the odds of Hynes making the paper using it?
     
  3. Riomouse911

    Riomouse911 Member

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    Old service guns often have some amazing stories they could tell...I’m glad you were able to piece together some great historical events that go along with your new S&W. It’s first owner was a real warrior and an officer who clearly earned the medals of distinction he wore :thumbup: .

    May you and yours make some great memories with it, too! :)

    Stay safe.
     
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  4. GeoDudeFlorida

    GeoDudeFlorida Member

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    The general public had a great deal of respect for beat cops back then. The reporters wanted to make sure everybody knew where to bring casseroles and home-baked bread as "Thank You"s to the nice officers.
     
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  5. GeoDudeFlorida

    GeoDudeFlorida Member

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    Why? Bluing don't hit targets. (a blatant ripoff of the biker saying, "Chrome don't get you home." ;)
     
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  6. ThomasT

    ThomasT Member

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    I wanted to buy my uncles Model 15 he used while on duty on the Ft Worth PD. It was the gun he used to kill one man who shot at him and then attacked him but my aunt sold it out from under me after he passed away even though I specifically asked for that one gun. There is a newspaper article describing the shooting but you have to sign up to be able to read it. So I signed up and still can't read it.:fire:
     
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  7. GeoDudeFlorida

    GeoDudeFlorida Member

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    I was in a store yesterday after a doctor's appointment catching up and saying "Hi" to old friends when a fellow about my age - md-50's - came in with about a dozen guns to sell on consignment. Among them was a 1916 Erfurt Luger with BRITISH nitro-proofs. A British capture Luger! No "Broad Arrow" so it wasn't sold-out-of-service, it was a civilian capture. That's not very common, to say the least. $750 and its in great condition. I'm tempted but I'm at the selling time of my life, not the buying time. I asked if it was his collection: no, it was his wife's father's collection. He didn't even know what a Luger was. The old fellow was a WW2 vet and this was part of his collection. Wife said to get rid of them. The guy said he hates guns and so does the wife - but he sure seemed to like the money they would bring.
     
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  8. ThomasT

    ThomasT Member

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    You should have bought that Lugar.
     
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  9. GeoDudeFlorida

    GeoDudeFlorida Member

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    It's on a 15-day mandatory hold so I can still change my mind if the owner of the store decides he doesn't want it. I've had Lugers before and they're "meh" IMO. The Crown-over-BNP stampings are what caught my attention and make it interesting. Other than that, it's just a fickle 9mm pistol with a narrow grip.
     
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  10. RevolvingGarbage

    RevolvingGarbage Member

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    Now I wasn't around to know personally, but I think that has to do with there being way more people in the world in general, and maybe a touch of rose coloring on your lenses. It’s import to remember that lots of people back in those days had to watch out which water fountain they walked up to.

    Not to take away from the amazing story and bring everyone down, but context matters. For sure I think most of us daydream about where our guns have been and the things their users experienced and to have even half this much amazing backstory for them would be fantastic. Congrats on the gun and the fascinating history!
     
  11. WestKentucky

    WestKentucky Member

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    The way that the news stories read caught me as much as the story being covered. The officers home address in print? Wow. The blatant racial descriptions of the fight show that things have changed, so there’s good with the bad. Times are different, but I would not say as if times are better or worse. That was a day when a single income would feed a family and there was less to worry about, but racism and sexism tended to put people into “their place” from which it was hard to escape, not to mention judgement based upon other stereotypes. My grandfather has told stories of his “brother” and some of the trouble they got into as kids, and how it was looked at for him to claim a black person as family. In the late 30s and 40s.

    OP you found a neat gun, and you found a treasure trove of history behind it. Thank you for sharing that brief snip of years past and your excitement for the connection to your brothers in blue.
     
  12. George P

    George P Member

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    I have a NYPD pre-10 as well; I know who it belonged to - it was my dad's for his 33 years on NYPD...............;)
     
  13. Paul7

    Paul7 Member

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    Probably referring to a Nambu.
     
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  14. Speedo66

    Speedo66 Member

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    Interesting that the article re: his shootout outside a bar mentions that he was shot at 8 times, and he empties his revolver, another 6 shots, but no mention of anyone being hit.
     
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  15. Speedo66

    Speedo66 Member

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    An older officer I worked with in my state agency had formerly been an NYPD officer and he told me this story I found interesting:

    A guy he knew that was in his academy class had been one of the worst shooters in the class. There was an armed robbery in the jewelry district in Manhattan and this guy chased the robber several blocks into the crowded Grand Central Station terminal and at a distance with his revolver shot and hit him, enabling his capture.

    Back then if you made a big arrest like that and the papers picked it up, the brass at NYPD made a big deal of it for publicity and it wasn't unusual to be awarded a "gold shield", an instant promotion to detective, which came with a substantial pay increase.

    This guy told my friend that when the Chief pinned the shield on him in front of the cameras at the awards ceremony he whispered "you know if you'd missed and hit a bystander I'd be taking your shield, not giving you one".
     
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  16. 1KPerDay

    1KPerDay Member

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    Amazing story and clippings. Looks like his marksmanship could have improved a bit if we want to pick nits. But I'm sure I wouldn't have done any better with 4 bad guys shooting at me!
     
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  17. Homerboy

    Homerboy Member

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    I’m gonna give him a pass on marksmanship. 6 shots against 4 guys shooting at you, moving and shooting while taking cover. He was a world war 2 vet and a staff sergeant after only 3 years of service. I think he did just fine.

    I’m gonna try to find out his pathway on the job. I gotta think he made detective. The gun is in pretty good shape so maybe he was out of uniform after that shooting. Detectives never carried full size revolvers. Always snubbies. A badge of office.

    Also been corrected on the gun. It’s technically not a pre Model 10. It’s a post war M&P. During WW 2 Smith and Wesson stopped selling revolvers to civilians for the war effort. They made the Victory revolver, same gun as mine but a Parkerized finish and a lanyard loop with a V serial number. It had a long action trigger. In 1947, they went to the short action that the Model 10 retained so those were pre-Model 10’s. They became Model 10’s in 1957 when Smith went to a numbered Model system.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2021
  18. Old Dog

    Old Dog Member

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    For sure, the OP has now seriously raised the bar as far as provenance goes. A factory letter or GI bring-back authorization just ain't gonna cut it anymore. We shall now require the old-school black-and-white newspaper clippings!

    Way cool. As Wayne and Garth would say, "We're not worthy!"
     
  19. Homerboy

    Homerboy Member

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    Thanks. I feel very lucky. When you think about it, what are the odds? Sure, a factory letter is guaranteed. I figured RM Vivas might be able to help, but no guarantee there. But the cop making the paper and winning a medal? Him being assigned to my old precinct? That the gun would wind up in a small gun shop in NE PA and I would just happen to walk in and buy it? We’re talking slim to none. Hynes died in Florida in 1991. It’s doubtful he brought the gun with him to Florida and it made its way back here. Assuming he did 30 years max, he retired 45 years ago. Wonder where the gun has been since it left his possession?

    one thing that is odd is how the shield number was placed in the gun. My original post in the S&W forum that got me started on this had a member there who had a gun verified as shipping to the NYPD with a serial number that was very close to mine. He told me mine must have been in that shipment because he had two NYPD guns from that shipment and my serial number was between his. But he expressed doubt when he saw my shield number. The NYPD used neat engraved numbers to apply the shield number. The significant wear on the back strap indicated an aggressive sanding to remove something, and then my number was sloppily applied. He postulated that it might have been sold to one cop, the number applied, and then for some reason sold to the next cop who removed the old number and applied his own. But Hynes was the original owner, so that doesn’t work.

    Knowing the Equipment Section like I do, they probably screwed up applying the number, sanded the back strap, and told Hynes to shut up and like it. And more than likely Hynes did just that.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2021
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  20. Homerboy

    Homerboy Member

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    I called the NYPD Shield Desk to inquire about Hynes. Their records don't go back to 1946. They advised I call the Personnel Office. They only archive back to 1981. They advised me to call the NYPD Police Museum, but they're closed due to Covid. I doubt they're gonna be able to help me anyway.

    Oh, well. More than happy with the info I got. Hynes' career will just have to be a mystery.
     
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