farscott
Member
Well, this will be a short range report as I did not have much 9x19 ammo, and I now have none.
By way of introduction, I am a rabid 1911 shooter, and I love the 9mm variants. For me, it is all about the ergonomics, and the soft recoil. That being said, 9x19 1911 reliability with stock models ranges from darn near perfect to darn near horrible. It all depends on how the tolerances stack and how well the parts are fit, and the round is kinda short for the 1911 platform. I even had a 9x23 1911 built, but I made sure it came with a 9x19 barrel. 9x23 is a much better round, but I do not want to shoot .357 Magnum all of the time out of my 1911, and I want to be able to get ammo anywhere I go. I load 9x23, but I like to buy 9x19.
After over 20 years of 9x19 1911 shooting, I think I have seen enough to know that the only proof is in the shooting, which means lots of rounds downrange before reliability can be assumed. To get around the issues, I have forsaken stock 1911s, and all of my 1911s are worked on by a very good smith. The last gun he did for me came to him was out of spec in three different ways; now it runs like a top.
In the early years I got an expensive "lesson learned" as I traded a 9x19 Series '70 Colt that I could not get to run to a buddy. I cannot remember what my end of the trade was, but I remember that Colt. It could not get through a magazine without two or three bobbles. FTF, FTE, etc. If I had known then what I know now, I just would have installed a new extractor and swapped magazines -- or sent the pistol to my smith. Still 9x19 1911s can be finicky. My STI Trojan 5.0 ran with Mec-Gar and Metalform "Springfield Ramp" magazines but choked on Colt and Wilson magazines.
As everyone knows, there is a brand known for reliability in 9x19, Glock. I have owned and shot Glocks, and every sample I tried ran with no issues. However, I could not get used to the grip angle nor to the balance. And there was the trigger "sprong", something which messed with my 1911-experienced body. Additionally, a polymer frame just balances differently from a steel frame. So I was intrigued when CCF Raceframes introduced their aluminum and stainless steel frames. A steel Glock with an improved trigger and a 1911 grip "feel" was something which appealed to me.
So I read reviews, watched the various forums (Brian Enos and GlockTalk, especially), and waited. Reviews were, at best, mixed. Lots of extraction issues were reported. A lot of people spent a lot of money on paperweights. Then a miracle happened. Robar announced they were building on the CCF Raceframes. The people who had tried them were pleased. So I thought I might have found what I was wanting. But the resulting guns were (and are) pricey.
After my last new 9x19 1911 experience, I decided to order one of the Robar guns. It was less expensive than said 9x19 1911, and this 1911 was disastrous before I even got to shoot it. My dealer sent it back the first time before even calling me because of the issues he could see. Just getting it in my hands was a PITA, I was not happy with it as a result of the issues in getting it, and it was going to need some work (read, dollars) to make it right for me. It was a good gun but it was going to always make me mad whenever I looked at it. So I sold it and used the proceeds to order a Robar Alloy Extreme in stainless steel topped with XS Big Dot sights and finished inside and out in Robar's NP3. I also ordered the Glock and 1911 back straps as they can be swapped by driving out a pin, pulling the installed back strap, putting the other back strap in, and replacing the pin.
After patiently waiting for a few months, my pistol arrived yesterday afternoon. I picked it up and headed to my property for a shooting session. It is a nice looking gun, but the NP3 shows the casting flaws all too well. There are a few pinpoint voids and some obvious casting marks that could have been polished out of the frame before metal finishing was performed. Still it is a striking gun.
As part of my prep work, I had bought ten Glock magazines and ordered a total of 10 with the gun. Yes, I have 20 17-round Glock magazines, meaning I could carry 340 rounds without needing to reload magazines. I actually carried 300 rounds of 9x19 WWB as that was all I had. I had loaded 15 rounds into each of the magazines before the trip and set up a few coffee cans and milk jugs as targets. This range trip was for function, not accuracy. All shooting was done at distances of less than 20 yards, and a fair amount was at about 50 feet.
In not that much time, the gun was smoking hot and I was out of ammo. It is amazing (or scary to the wallet) how fast and easy it is to burn through ammo when each magazine holds 15 rounds, and one has 20 magazines.
Some realizations as a result of the range trip. The back straps are made from a spongy polymer that feels nothing like the polymer used in Glock's frames. These back straps have noticeable "give". The 1911 back strap fits my small hand better, and I am closer to being instinctively on target with that back strap.
The XS sights are fast and the sight picture is better than I expected. For my aging eyes, this was a surprise.
Recoil is nil with this gun, and I was fast with it. I was able to keep a coffee can hopping with all of the rounds in the magazine.
The trigger is not a 1911 trigger, but it is better than any Glock I tried. It feels like a good S&W revolver trigger and is about as long. Reset was acceptable but not stellar.
The slide does not wobble on the rails. It does not feel like a 1911 slide fit to a frame, but it does not feel like a Glock either. The extractor is NOT an LCI extractor, unlike what is shown in the Alloy Extreme manual. From the reports on the forums, that is a good decision by Robar.
I like the checkering and the lack of finger grooves. I needed the sharp checkering to hold onto the gun. The NP3 is slick, and sweaty hands made for some interesting experiences. I fumbled the draw twice in the afternoon heat, coming up with nothing in my hand. Oops!! Perhaps I should have chosen the Roguard finish.
The gun, with the rounds I fired, did not bobble once. Hard to draw any conclusions from 300 rounds. A good start. The installed buffer is showing some signs of wear, so I need to watch it. The gun, like anything finished in NP3, cleaned up fast and easily. Getting the slide back on the gun was a PITA as I need to hold the slide latches on both sides of the gun in the down position while putting the slide back on the frame.
Special thanks to Terry Peters of PT-Partners for making this happen. Terry is a top-notch dealer.
Some pictures.
By way of introduction, I am a rabid 1911 shooter, and I love the 9mm variants. For me, it is all about the ergonomics, and the soft recoil. That being said, 9x19 1911 reliability with stock models ranges from darn near perfect to darn near horrible. It all depends on how the tolerances stack and how well the parts are fit, and the round is kinda short for the 1911 platform. I even had a 9x23 1911 built, but I made sure it came with a 9x19 barrel. 9x23 is a much better round, but I do not want to shoot .357 Magnum all of the time out of my 1911, and I want to be able to get ammo anywhere I go. I load 9x23, but I like to buy 9x19.
After over 20 years of 9x19 1911 shooting, I think I have seen enough to know that the only proof is in the shooting, which means lots of rounds downrange before reliability can be assumed. To get around the issues, I have forsaken stock 1911s, and all of my 1911s are worked on by a very good smith. The last gun he did for me came to him was out of spec in three different ways; now it runs like a top.
In the early years I got an expensive "lesson learned" as I traded a 9x19 Series '70 Colt that I could not get to run to a buddy. I cannot remember what my end of the trade was, but I remember that Colt. It could not get through a magazine without two or three bobbles. FTF, FTE, etc. If I had known then what I know now, I just would have installed a new extractor and swapped magazines -- or sent the pistol to my smith. Still 9x19 1911s can be finicky. My STI Trojan 5.0 ran with Mec-Gar and Metalform "Springfield Ramp" magazines but choked on Colt and Wilson magazines.
As everyone knows, there is a brand known for reliability in 9x19, Glock. I have owned and shot Glocks, and every sample I tried ran with no issues. However, I could not get used to the grip angle nor to the balance. And there was the trigger "sprong", something which messed with my 1911-experienced body. Additionally, a polymer frame just balances differently from a steel frame. So I was intrigued when CCF Raceframes introduced their aluminum and stainless steel frames. A steel Glock with an improved trigger and a 1911 grip "feel" was something which appealed to me.
So I read reviews, watched the various forums (Brian Enos and GlockTalk, especially), and waited. Reviews were, at best, mixed. Lots of extraction issues were reported. A lot of people spent a lot of money on paperweights. Then a miracle happened. Robar announced they were building on the CCF Raceframes. The people who had tried them were pleased. So I thought I might have found what I was wanting. But the resulting guns were (and are) pricey.
After my last new 9x19 1911 experience, I decided to order one of the Robar guns. It was less expensive than said 9x19 1911, and this 1911 was disastrous before I even got to shoot it. My dealer sent it back the first time before even calling me because of the issues he could see. Just getting it in my hands was a PITA, I was not happy with it as a result of the issues in getting it, and it was going to need some work (read, dollars) to make it right for me. It was a good gun but it was going to always make me mad whenever I looked at it. So I sold it and used the proceeds to order a Robar Alloy Extreme in stainless steel topped with XS Big Dot sights and finished inside and out in Robar's NP3. I also ordered the Glock and 1911 back straps as they can be swapped by driving out a pin, pulling the installed back strap, putting the other back strap in, and replacing the pin.
After patiently waiting for a few months, my pistol arrived yesterday afternoon. I picked it up and headed to my property for a shooting session. It is a nice looking gun, but the NP3 shows the casting flaws all too well. There are a few pinpoint voids and some obvious casting marks that could have been polished out of the frame before metal finishing was performed. Still it is a striking gun.
As part of my prep work, I had bought ten Glock magazines and ordered a total of 10 with the gun. Yes, I have 20 17-round Glock magazines, meaning I could carry 340 rounds without needing to reload magazines. I actually carried 300 rounds of 9x19 WWB as that was all I had. I had loaded 15 rounds into each of the magazines before the trip and set up a few coffee cans and milk jugs as targets. This range trip was for function, not accuracy. All shooting was done at distances of less than 20 yards, and a fair amount was at about 50 feet.
In not that much time, the gun was smoking hot and I was out of ammo. It is amazing (or scary to the wallet) how fast and easy it is to burn through ammo when each magazine holds 15 rounds, and one has 20 magazines.
Some realizations as a result of the range trip. The back straps are made from a spongy polymer that feels nothing like the polymer used in Glock's frames. These back straps have noticeable "give". The 1911 back strap fits my small hand better, and I am closer to being instinctively on target with that back strap.
The XS sights are fast and the sight picture is better than I expected. For my aging eyes, this was a surprise.
Recoil is nil with this gun, and I was fast with it. I was able to keep a coffee can hopping with all of the rounds in the magazine.
The trigger is not a 1911 trigger, but it is better than any Glock I tried. It feels like a good S&W revolver trigger and is about as long. Reset was acceptable but not stellar.
The slide does not wobble on the rails. It does not feel like a 1911 slide fit to a frame, but it does not feel like a Glock either. The extractor is NOT an LCI extractor, unlike what is shown in the Alloy Extreme manual. From the reports on the forums, that is a good decision by Robar.
I like the checkering and the lack of finger grooves. I needed the sharp checkering to hold onto the gun. The NP3 is slick, and sweaty hands made for some interesting experiences. I fumbled the draw twice in the afternoon heat, coming up with nothing in my hand. Oops!! Perhaps I should have chosen the Roguard finish.
The gun, with the rounds I fired, did not bobble once. Hard to draw any conclusions from 300 rounds. A good start. The installed buffer is showing some signs of wear, so I need to watch it. The gun, like anything finished in NP3, cleaned up fast and easily. Getting the slide back on the gun was a PITA as I need to hold the slide latches on both sides of the gun in the down position while putting the slide back on the frame.
Special thanks to Terry Peters of PT-Partners for making this happen. Terry is a top-notch dealer.
Some pictures.
