Rock Island still the default for a 1911 on a budget?

[12Bravo20]

This thread ran off a cliff...

Yes it did.

I do believe that the OP's question was answered by several of us. He asked specifically about RIA 1911 pistols. They are good to go. I would personally go with the RIA TAC instead of the TAC II and save the $90. You can get a replacement fiber optic front sight from Dawson Precision if you want/need one. With the average price of the TAC only being $50 more than the GI, it is a good deal.

 

[Ed Ames]

Prove to me it isn't a half-cock.

I don’t need to. Instead I can amend my previous statement. It isn’t *just* a half cock. it’s commonly mistaken for *just* a half cock but it serves another function *too*. Seriously, you really went off half cocked on this one.

As for what the rest, I’ll just say this: Yes, the Army, especially in peace time, has a tendency to adopt bureaucratic CYA policies in place of sound firearm handling techniques. And yes, citing military practice is about as relevant to a discussion of how a gun was designed to be used as citing the latest trends in lip gloss colors. I get that, and you don’t need to convince me with more examples of just how bad they are.

So I’ll stop derailing the thread and say this:


I have owned several RIAs alongside a variety of other 1911s. The RIAs are good guns but I think they are actively trying NOT to be “Default for a 1911 on a budget.” They were that, and they want to be something more. Looking at guns I’ve purchased from them over the past decade you can see a progression from “basic parkerized 1911 with a few upgrades” to “you can’t buy this configuration without a rail, ambi safety, etc, fancy stocks, etc.” That’s buying as close to the same model as possible.

 

[entropy]

I don’t need to. Instead I can amend my previous statement. It isn’t *just* a half cock. it’s commonly mistaken for *just* a half cock but it serves another function *too*. Seriously, you really went off half cocked on this one.

Like the pun. It's a bit tenuous as a safety, but I will agree the half-cock notch can also stop a hammer that came off the sear without the trigger being pulled. This is true of all hammered guns with half-cock notches that have triggers with return springs on them.

As for what the rest, I’ll just say this: Yes, the Army, especially in peace time, has a tendency to adopt bureaucratic CYA policies in place of sound firearm handling techniques. And yes, citing military practice is about as relevant to a discussion of how a gun was designed to be used as citing the latest trends in lip gloss colors. I get that, and you don’t need to convince me with more examples of just how bad they are.

Especially when the prevailing military practice the gun was designed for no longer exsists. It was designed as a Cavalry sidearm. So we are agreed.

I have owned several RIAs alongside a variety of other 1911s. The RIAs are good guns but I think they are actively trying NOT to be “Default for a 1911 on a budget.” They were that, and they want to be something more. Looking at guns I’ve purchased from them over the past decade you can see a progression from “basic parkerized 1911 with a few upgrades” to “you can’t buy this configuration without a rail, ambi safety, etc, fancy stocks, etc.” That’s buying as close to the same model as possible.

100% Agreement on this. It's why I cited my impression of the Tisas earlier. It's what the RIA used to be.

 

[rdnktrkr]

I purchased the ATI 1911 with adj sights a few yrs ago, I think around $300 after rebate and it shoots great, has always run everything I put in it, after a good cleaning, and looks good, then I purchased the RIA 1911 for $400, black and stainless looks GOOD, shoots good, doesn't like light bullets, then I found a Springfield Armory stainless at Alexanders for $500, I'm still breaking it in but so far no problems. I think if you look around or wait until the "covid" prices succeed you will be pleased with any of your choices

 

[Slamfire]

I will relate my own use (not repair) experiences with the 1911 while in the Army. Cocked and Locked was expressly forbidden by directive when I was in. ('86-'89) So was carrying with hammer down, round in chamber. The only modes of carry allowed (officially) were mag in, hammer down on empty chamber, or mag out, hammer down on empty chamber. At least when guarding with a 1911, you could have a loaded magazine, and in the pistol even. If you were guarding with a rifle, you were issued a sealed box of M198, and one 20 round magazine. (Until we had to turn the 20 rounders in, then one 30 rounder.) You were not authorized to open the box unless you had challenged an intruder and they failed the password for the day. I guess command figured they'd wait around while you loaded your magazine.....
I only drew my M16A1 for guard duty once. I grabbed a 1911 everytime after that. (I was the Unit Armorer, so I could grab what I wanted.)

Thanks for the help, I am still copying and pasting material that goes back to WW1 and earlier. Your experience is invaluable in this though. I could use your help when I talk about the military culture and what the military allows. To start with, civilians don't understand how controlled weapon access is in the military and who gets what, or what not. More often, it is what not. I would like to discuss this and I am sure I will get things wrong. What I know is hearsay, and my mind fills in the blanks with a false narrative. But I have some things to do today, and as I have said before, ignorance is easy.

I would like to say to Ed Ames, sorry if I wrote something too snippy. I do appreciate your reference of the 1940 Cavalry TM, it has taken time to read through sections and get a better understanding of the document. One has to be careful on quoting chapter and verse without understand the totality of the Scriptures. There is material in there that supports a cocked and locked carry, in 1940. So, I am going to have to back track some of my comments about Cult Cocked & Locked making up a false history. It is just that Cult C&L stops there. There is a before. And, I was able to find older source material that went into that manual. Neat, huh?

 

[Ed Ames]

Well, whether you we’re snippy or not, I was, and I’m sorry about that. It’s just that it really seems like everyone is being revisionist to support their own preferences.

If you had said, “I know how the mechanism works, and I don’t think it has enough margin for wear and damage to carry daily for extended periods unless you are extremely vigilant about maintenance, so I don’t trust it. My concerns are addressed in the series 80 changes so I’m probably not alone in my views. ” I would have thought to myself, “that’s a valid point.”

I’m sure you are familiar with Julian Hatcher. People quote him as saying that the “best way” to carry is hammer down on a loaded chamber, but even he acknowledged that it was not the Army regulation way of carrying. I think he was the source of a lot of the “cavalry specified condition two” thing but I could be totally wrong about that.

As far as I can tell the Army started out with what we nowadays call Condition One as the regulation approach. Then for whatever reason some within the army shifted to what is probably the least safe way overall (condition two) and from there you are just a few negligent discharges away from condition three being mandated. All of that is reasonable when the sidearm is more a badge of authority than a fighting tool. Knowing how risk-averse the US military is it’s not surprising that they went that direction.

I’m also pretty sure that whatever the military did to try and keep a bunch of careless 18 year olds from shooting their own feet off on US bases is not exactly relevant to a discussion of what’s actually safe in the real world. Even less relevant is the mythology a bunch of those 18 year olds told each other to explain the rules, and now tell their grand children. And that’s a lot of what gets passed around as community knowledge.

 

[Pure2nd]

As for the thread title, I'm 2 for 3 on RIA 1911'S.

I've owned 2 RIA 1911's in 9 mm, one which couldn't feed a full mag ever(tried many bullet mag combos), and one that was 100% in appetite, operation, and great in accuracy.

Number 3 is a GI model 10mm and it's an absolute joy. Fit, finish, reliability and accuracy are all there and the slide isnt a billboard (fwiw).

I'm sure I'll own another in some form.

 

[Ed Ames]

I’ve owned 2 RIA 1911's in 9 mm, one which couldn't feed a full mag ever(tried many bullet mag combos)...

For what it’s worth, I had the same thing happen. Sent an email to Armscor, they sent me a shipping label, and after awhile they sent back a new gun. Complete replacement, new serial, one had a frame feed ramp, the other a ramped barrel. The replacement was reliable and slightly upgraded in a few ways relative to the first.

 

[12Bravo20]

For what it’s worth, I had the same thing happen. Sent an email to Armscor, they sent me a shipping label, and after awhile they sent back a new gun. Complete replacement, new serial, one had a frame feed ramp, the other a ramped barrel. The replacement was reliable and slightly upgraded in a few ways relative to the first.

I'm curious, was it the non ramped barrel that gave you trouble or the ramped barrel. The RIA 9mm I bought recently has the ramped barrel and has done well with everything I have fed it.

 

[Ed Ames]

The replacement had the ramped barrel. No complaints.

 

[AlexanderA]

hey Don't forget Auto Ordnance, i Have had a couple of them over the years , the new ones are better than the older ones , no problems from either

I would second that. The Kahr Arms / Auto Ordnance / Thompson M1911 is a direct competitor to the RIA guns at the low end of the market, but the quality has improved considerably in recent production. (We're talking roughly a $500 price point.) The Kahr is U.S. made and has a Series 80 firing pin block.

 

[bannockburn]

I have worked on an RIA 1911 and found the overal fit and finish to be on par with other brands entry level models. I think the RIA Tactical 1911, Ruger SR1911, and Remington R1 all give you a really decent gun for your money.

 

[HPCadm17]

I have never shot an RIA 1911 but I know several people who have them. They only have good things to say about them. I think it would be difficult to do better for the price.

 

[12Bravo20]

The replacement had the ramped barrel. No complaints.

1911's seem to do better with a ramped barrel when it comes to shorter rounds such as 9mm and 40S&W. Glad to hear that your replacement pistol has worked for you.