Rock River AR-15

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And than there is always the one that state they would not have brand X in combat. Get a life, were (sic) shooting paper targets or coyotes or cactus,or rocks,or metal silhouettes.

Different people buy their guns for different reasons. Some for plinking, some for competition, some for defense, some for SHTF scenarios. Some people even buy their guns for work (LEO that buys own patrol rifle etc). I don't judge why someone buys an AR. However, it makes perfect sense to get a gun that is well suited to what the intended use is whatever that might be.

Too many people are far to quick to assume everyone else wants a gun for what they want it for and will in fact use it the same way.
 
The above proves my point perfectly - thanks!

"My AR is better than yours"
"Iphone sucks, Android is better"
"Ford sucks, Chevy all the way"

blah blah blah.

Have fun guys.
 
I own a well used RRA midlength. My opinion is there are better products available for the same or less money easily. That said I'm keeping my rock river and the other brand I went with years later. I will say RRA fit and finish was exceptional but other things are important IMO.

Get a 4150 barrel for less
Get a tested bolt for less
Get proper staking for less
Ensure proper chamber cut for less

The trainers who see hundreds of failures every year are the people I'd trut for input - assuming one is not just getting a range toy thy won't use enough to discover flaws.
 
My coyote carbine runs great. I don't care what "great" means to anyone else, how many rounds THEY feel is reliable, or how hard THEY would want to run the gun before making THEIR judgement. I'm not an operator, don't play like I am one, I don't run 3 gun courses, don't know anybody that is or has. Maybe when I am I will care about the implications of non mil-specness. IF (IF, not when) my RRA ever breaks, it breaks...and I'll fix it. While its out of order, there will be NO bullets whizzing by my head, NO prisoners taken and NO buddies dying because my rifle was out of order. Just a minor frustration, same as I've had with other guns of mine that have failed for whatever reason.
My RRA exceeds its accuracy guarantee by a good portion and is more than adequate for my needs and would be more than adequate for the needs of everyone I know. It IS a range/accuracy toy, something to test my reloads, and to train with on odd occasions that I feel like going that route. Again, I'm not an operator, I don't sweat in fear that my lack of "operator tactical knowledge" will mean my demise, and I think I have my self defense needs covered well enough with the myriad of firearms I own.

I have no doubt that if I needed to, it would serve perfectly well as my self defense weapon, mediocre-staked gas key and all. Somehow people get all caught up in how important the ability to fire thousands of rounds in a sandstorm is, then quote their need for "self defense".....Exactly how long are you going to be defending your house for, against how large a force, and in what conditions, again? Last I heard, typical self defense scenarios are what, less than 10 shots at less than 20 yards inside a clean house? And you NEED mil-spec for that? Lol at that.

The likelihood that I will suddenly find myself in a sandbox or swamp somewhere with nothing but my RRA rifle between me and certain death is pretty low, by my estimation, so I waste no tears on the "chart" or "mil-spec" or what wanabee's have to say about my rifle.

From what I have read by people more knowledgeable than me, the "chart" is NOT the end all be all of specs, it is a template of what is cost effective vs. reliable, and a compromise therein. Materials, manufacturing, and knowledge has come a long way since the "chart" came into existence and became the bible for every self proclaimed AR guru. There are many NON MIL-SPEC rifles out there that are BETTER than mil-spec, specifically because they depart from mil-spec.

Others take their AR-15 and whatever scenario they envision much more seriously. I get it. If I want to be relevant I "need" a 6920. ****.
 
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The above proves my point perfectly - thanks!

"My AR is better than yours"
"Iphone sucks, Android is better"
"Ford sucks, Chevy all the way"

blah blah blah.

Have fun guys.

Actually, we disproved your point, and did a damn good job of it, I might add.

But, let's play a game: Please quote where we told you what manufacturer our rifles were. Did we?

I know I didn't. Because I am not playing an internet peeing game contest of "My rifle is better than yours" and, for the purposes of this discussion, what my rifles are is not important. That's why I didn't even mention it.

While you are quoting where we name-dropped our rifle's brand, could you please answer the questions the other poster posed above about your rifle, it's use, and your experiences that led you to your conclusion?
 
Same as silicosys4.... and I happen to own a Colt 6920. I don't find it any more "tactical" than my RRA. If you want to get all anal about having one gun that adheres closer to the military specs, go get one of those. I believe that for 99.99% of us, one works just as well as another. My RRA and my Colt or other ARs, put a 5.56mm projectile down the range really well. Do yourself a favor and don't get hung up on what the internet is saying. An RRA is a fine rifle.
 
Read post #29, Warp. You are a troll when it comes to AR-15 threads, as far as I have seen.
 
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Who are you referring to? :confused:'

I know you aren't referring to me, as I have given specific information.

The &^% you have.

"I choose to avoid RRA" ... and a tale of one round not going off in one rifle.

You call that specific?
 
The above proves my point perfectly - thanks!

"My AR is better than yours"
"Iphone sucks, Android is better"
"Ford sucks, Chevy all the way"

blah blah blah.

Have fun guys.

In what way did it prove your point? No one has said I have X or Y and it is better than Z.

I think it helped to prove my point that you ducked every question I asked you. People that are so quick to say my gun has been flawless often are not nearly as quick to actually quantify it.

The likelihood that I will suddenly find myself in a sandbox or swamp somewhere with nothing but my RRA rifle between me and certain death is pretty low, by my estimation, so I waste no tears on the "chart" or "mil-spec" or what wanabee's have to say about my rifle.

I find it pretty amusing that you, Jon B and the like can't make a point without name calling. First, name calling is not only childish, it is not what this forum is about. Second, do you not believe that some folks buy guns as weapons and not toys. Lots of LEOs have to buy personal weapons. Are they "wannabes" or "armchair commandos"? Is a guy who not only buys a gun for HD but plans to put in the many hours of training and thousands of rounds of practice to be reasonably proficient with it and wants a gun that is a proven performer under those circumstances a wannabe or an armchair commando?

How is that use any better or worse than some guy that wants to sit in the hills, trick an unsuspecting canis to walking within a few hundred yards, and then shoot the thing for his own amusement?

As to the chart, only four people (now five) in this thread have mentioned it. It is telling to go look and see who those people were. You'll note that one of the few specific guns I mentioned in relation to another poster's comment that one cannot do better than an RRA, are not guns that conforms to "the chart." Also, just FYI, there is no current chart. The is still the TDP and some guns are built to that. Some are not. Of those that are not there are guns that are made with cost cutting and/or inferior methods or materials and there are guns that IMHO exceed what is called for or achieve perfectly good results in another way.

When it comes to ARs one needs to identify what he or she wants his gun to do? I would then advise the person buy a gun that is well suited for that task and has a proven track record in it. The fact is ARs are insanely versatile guns and cane be built and configured for a broad range of tasks. What is perfectly suitable for one is not for another. If I want a precision gun I wouldn't get a 6920 or 10.5" suppressed SBR. If I want a plinker to shoot at 0-300 yards I might not need an OBR or a KAC. If I want to be a competitive three gun shooter a JP rifle is going to better serve me than a 24" heavy barrel varmint rig. And if I need a patrol rifle, that gamer gun as nice and expensive as it is not what I want to stake my life on. One needs a gun built to do what one want's to do. Its like arguing about whether a 1 ton pick up is better than an M3 without first establishing whether you are going to be cruising the autoban or hauling a horse trailer.

It is also the case that some things are simply a better way to do things than others. There is no argument that not staking a gas key is better. Its not. It can, and it certainly has led to guns failing. Not staking a castle nut is a worse way to do it. A RE can work loose and cause a big problem. Now what the costs of an untimely failure are can vary significantly depending on what the gun is being used for. This is why three gun rifles often are set up in a way to make them flatter faster shooting guns but at the risk of being finicky.

When you establish an intended use and priority of qualities some guns really are better than others. To act like they are not is both ignorant and silly. To say that something is good enough, also does not refute the idea that something else is in fact better. To assert than people only want better for bragging rights is childish and ignores that better may actually matter in the way that person uses his or her gun.
 
The &^% you have.

"I choose to avoid RRA" ... and a tale of one round not going off in one rifle.

You call that specific?

That sure is specific.

If there is any other information, or anything more specific, that you want to know about it, I'd be happy to share.

I have observed other less-than-ideal performances from DPMS and RRA rifles, but I don't know enough specifics in those cases to necessarily "place blame". But in the RRA case I mentioned, I was in a position to fire the round myself afterwards, which made everything perfectly clear. I also knew very well the status of the rifle, since it was my dad's.

Same int he DPMS case. I have observed other less-than-stellar performances from DPMS rifles, but when they are stranger's rifles at the range I don't know enough information to conclusively determine fault, and I want to be fair.

Then, of course, there is the whole "they aren't even made from equal components" thing, but people seem to get worked up when you point out that certain rifles are made of better stuff than others.

You may feel that my specific anecdote was an "n=1" thing that isn't enough to judge with, but it certainly IS specific.
 
^^ This thread is about Rock River ar-15's. Not what Giroden and Warp would rather have than a Rock River, based on what an operator/LE would need. Quiet frustrating to try and talk about RRA when people start jumping in with off topic, uneccessary, unwanted "advice" that is based on regurgitated internet info, false "needs", and extremely limited personal experience/bias.
 
^^ This thread is about Rock River ar-15's. Not what Giroden and Warp would rather have than a Rock River, based on what an operator/LE would need.

Straw man.

I never said nor implied anything about an "operator" or LE.

Please don't make this a name calling straw-man thing. It will only get the thread closed.
 
Then bow out, since you have said your piece about RRA and clearly have nothing more to add.
 
^^ This thread is about Rock River ar-15's. Not what Giroden and Warp would rather have than a Rock River, based on what an operator/LE would need. Quiet frustrating to try and talk about RRA when people start jumping in with off topic, uneccessary, unwanted "advice" that is based on regurgitated internet info, false "needs", and extremely limited personal experience/bias.

I find it irritating when people engage in personal insults and straw man arguments, and make a habit of going back and editing their posts to add more insults and comments after the fact, hoping the other person/people don't realize that it has been added.

:rolleyes:

There's a lot of that going on here, the above quoted post being but one specific example.
 
So you quote me while I'm editing my post. Then you do the same thing, edit YOUR post after posting. Boohoo. Shouldn't have been so eager to jump back down my throat.

Regardless,
You are still cluttering up the thread by trying to sustain an argument with me. Proper thing to do is contribute meaningfully to the thread, or ****. I'm taking my own advice, I've said my piece.
 
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Dollar-to-dollar comparison the ones that come to my mind (and I suspect, but cannot verify, his will be similar/the same) are Palmetto State Armory (PSA), Smith and Wesson M&P15, or Spikes Tactical.

Absolute terms is generally a list that looks something like this: KAC, Noveske, LMT, LaRue, Colt, BCM
 
Ok - thats what i was looking for. A simple yes or no would have sufficed too.

My local store has RR and DPMS in stock so thats why i asked about those 2.

I'm a recreational shooter, weekend day at the range every month or 2. No competition, don't care about mil-spec, no competition. Just a plinker. I carried an M16 in the military so just looking for a commercial version without breaking the bank.

Looking in the $7-800 range.
 
Ok - thats what i was looking for. A simple yes or no would have sufficed too.

My local store has RR and DPMS in stock so thats why i asked about those 2.

I'm a recreational shooter, weekend day at the range every month or 2. No competition, don't care about mil-spec, no competition. Just a plinker. I carried an M16 in the military so just looking for a commercial version without breaking the bank.

Looking in the $7-800 range.

Consider this: (comes with an Aimpoint even!)

http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/featured/psa-16-m4-premium-patrol-carbine-package.html

It's $1,100 and includes an Aimpoint that retails for $400, sometimes as low as $365 when it's on a great sale, and that you could sell for ~$325 in a heartbeat if you wanted to, to make the total cost $800.

Disclaimer: I do not own a PSA, no have I ever owned a PSA.
 
I have owned about 12 RRA ARs over the years. I kept trading to try different configurations. They have been nice rifles. I compete with them and am a shooting enthusiast. I usually shoot 80 - 200 rounds per outting and clean them every 3-5 times out.

I have never had a parts failure on a 223 Wylde / 556, or part loosen. I have had one malf that I could not explain (Federal XM 193 and a 20 round PMag). All others malfs were due to a fouled up D&H or a couple of fouled up C-Products magazines.

One rifle didn't come with a roll pin in the rear sight for sight assembly retention. One rifle required a fair bit of windage on the rear sight to get a zero. One showed small tear marks on the rubber on the Hogue free float tube from a strap wrench. One or two didn't have crisp positive clicks to "on safe" and "fire" with the safety lever. So I replaced those safety levers. Functionally they were fine though.

My 458 Socom had a poorly done extractor (hand shaped part) and a corner on a barrel lug chipped off. Both replaced by RRA under warranty.

I returned a 9mm carbine that was horribly inaccurate, only to find that much common 9mm ammo (everything I tried) is horribly inaccurate and that the gun was actually fine.

That is about it.

Other than that they all have been quite accurate and have had great triggers. They all have happily eaten all loads fed, 556 and even 223 ammo (S&B) that short strokes my BCM uppers. In this regard they have been more reliable than my "tier 1" gear.

When I bought mine they were a lot cheaper than they are now. At current prices I would probably just spring for BCM or the like, but really I can't complain at all about the RRA shooting performance for normal range use and shooting HP events. I certainly wouldn't hesitate to use one in a personal defense roll around the house.

I have never owned any DPMS so I can't make a comparison.
 
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