Rohrbaugh news 8/28/03

[Blackhawk]

The website is significantly updated: http://www.rohrbaughfirearms.com

Their will be two models of the pistol: R-9 and R-9S. The R-9S has sights.

The gun will be 0.12" longer than previously reported. Longer barrel and slide gives more room for the recoil springs, which avoids overloading them. The longer the barrel, the better in pocket guns. Helps velocity.

The gun will be about 1/10 ounce heavier than previously reported.

Availability is "soon", and I'm very glad that they're not using customers as beta testers. I'd rather wait for the manufacturer to get things right....

 

[9x19]

Those guys are starting to sound like The Little Gun Maker Who Cried Wolf!

I hope they can get that thing on the market before the economy really tanks, and all those advance orders dry up.

Perhaps a model name change is in order... the ADN-9 (Any Day Now).

 

[pale horse]

I am with Flyer.

I have been watching the progression of these pistols and to be honest I dont think they deserve 1000.00 a pop. You can get a pistol that is a little bigger for less money. I dont see what is so special about them they are small 9mms. That in and of its self has turned me away from them.

If I wanted something like what this company is advertising I would get a derrenger for about 250 at most. Or if I was really in need of a pocket pistol small light and made in the usa I would go with a Kel-Tec. Just for the record I wont touch a Khar, but if you want to support the family go ahead.

 

[NJ3]

At least the website is making progress. I hope to see progress on the pistols soon too. Any guess when they will ship?

 

[snubby]

How does the R-9 compare to a Kel-Tec P11? Seems to me they're about the same size/weight, though with a big difference in price.

 

[Blackhawk]

The R-9 as about the same size as a P-32 and weighs about 12.4 ounces unloaded so it's loaded weight will be quite a bit less than a P-11, especially since it holds fewer rounds.

It's not going to be a gun for everybody. It promises to have extremely high quality and be a highly durable 9x19 mousegun.

For me, the price isn't that big a deal, but a 9mm mighty mouse gun is.

The R-9 uses a compression main spring, and I've broken extension springs like my KTs have for main springs. It comes down to the question of whether I'd be happier with my wife carrying an R-9 or a P-3AT/P-32. My main defense is that I've got a glare, presence, and attitude that can scare a maggot off a carcass, but she doesn't.

I'm perfectly happy with my KTs as compact and mini CCWs, but if there's something marginally better, I'm interested....

 

[WonderNine]

I'm definately interested. It seems like it's going to be considerably smaller than the MK9. I have a 9mm American Derringer, but I don't feel comfortable with the two shot capacity and questionable accuracy. It's a good quality piece though. Loading it with Hirtinberger 9mm (over 500 ft/lbs energy) is almost like having the power of full house .357's in your hands with less noise and alot less flash. Still loud though.

$1,000 ???

I hope they manage to bring that down.

 

[Brian D.]

I looked at/handled the Rohrbaughs at SHOT this year. Now, the price has crept up to $1000 or more, eh? If the difference in size between them and the smaller Kahr model is that big of a deal to somebody, I'd suspect that person would not be truly "comfy" carrying ANY pistol. Perhaps if one has that much disposable income to spend on a less-than-truly-useful defensive piece, they oughta just spring for the services of a bodyguard. Sorry, not trying to be overly ranty, but those Rohrbaughs just didn't make much of an impression on me. When trigger pull weight = 15-20 times the weight of the gun, that's just not good math, for me anyhow. How's about this as an alternative: Buy a Kahr MK9/40, or a S&W ltwt. J-frame, and spend the difference on shooting practice?

 

[WonderNine]

Hmm, I've been reading about them for quite some time and I thought the MSRP was always quoted as around $1,000?

 

[NJ3]

I still have an email from Eric Rohrbaugh from October 2002 that said MSRP "should be around the $695.00 to $895.00 figure depending on the model you choose."

$1000 will be out of my league, but I still want to see it made. I don't know why I care though.

 

[Standing Wolf]

I think that pistol just priced itself out of the market.

 

[dfhoward]

I visited the factory on Long Island about a year ago. I can tell you the owners were polite and certainly seemed genuine to me. I saw several very expensive cad/cam type machines. At the time they were using them to make the fixtures. The MSRP has gone up from the 600's to the 800's, I believe. I think the 1000 dollar figure comes from people expecting higher prices in the beginning. If an MK9 elite retails for 730, the retail on the R9A could be in the 800's. If you wait a couple of years, you may be able to find them for closer to 600 street price (IMO) and there will most likely be design changes. As this is a small company, it would not be impossible that they would have to halt production if a key member leaves (lottery winner, etc.). Barring that, I think they will do well. This would be the most practical pocket gun in a caliber designed for a full size gun. It will kick, but probably not as much as the Scandium .357. Probably as much as a PPK with hot loads. It will be accurate for what it is. It will not be accurate for what it is not. As mentioned previously, I have met some of the people involved, they seemed genuine to me, and I wish them well. They would certainly be seeming to raising the bar, not a bad thing.

Regards,

Danny

 

[Jeff OTMG]

Thanks for the update Blackhawk. I was expecting delivery of mine a couple of weeks ago, but heard nothing. The $1000 price is not really that out of line when you consider the workmanship and an H&K P7 costs more. Also consider that people were asking that kind of money for a Seecamp LWS32 for better than 10 years.

 

[MikeJ]

That's an interesting observation Jeff about the Seecamp and what they use to go for. Around here I use to see them for $800-$900 and why were people willing to pay that, because it was the most powerful caliber in a gun of that size. Instead of having to carry a .22 or .25 you could step up to a .32. I see it the same way for the Rohrbaugh, people are willing to pay more for a gun that "truly" slips in their pocket and is chambered in a caliber (9mm) that no other gun of its size is. A Kel-Tec 9mm or even the new Kahr PM9 aren't even close to the size of the Rohrbaugh and that makes it unique. I personally don't have any plans on getting one but I can see why someone with extra bucks burning a hole in their wallet would want one.

 

[Alan Fud]

I had one on lay-away ever since I heard you guys talking about it about six month ago but when I left Florida, I sent to the gunshop to get my deposit back. Now that I'm living in a colder climate, the need for such a small gun is lessened.

I think I'll wait until the gun hits the streets and see how people like it.

Thanks for the update and please keep us informed. I still may end up getting one ... maybe the wife will GIVE it to me for Christmas or my birthday

 

[SpeedRacer2002]

Wonder how many will jump ship for the CZ RAMI

Sure the RAMI is slightly bigger and twice as heavy.

But it is a serious gun:
8 rounds of .40 (or 10 rounds of 9mm if that version is ever imported)
CZ Name and Quality
Snag free sights
Cocked an Locked carry.

Maybe not as much of a "Pocket gun" as the Rohrbaugh, but at least the company is a known quantity.

 

[WonderNine]

I wouldn't say it's "slightly" bigger, I'd say it's ALOT bigger and quite a bit heavier. The RAMI is not a jeans pocket pistol by any means.

 

[duncan]

Let's get level set here.

$1,000 for a six shot polymer 9mm Guardian/Seecamp clone is ridiculous.

Out of a 2.7 inch barrel, the ballistics are going to be terrible.

Let's see, a 124 grain Golden Sabre doing 950 fps out of that barrel yields only 248 fpe and with that short barrel, I don't know if you would get 12 inches plus of penetration.

Smallest yes.

Most expensive - heck yeah.

Pay $1,000 for any 9mm handgun? Only the Sig P-210 and HKP7 line are worth that kind of money.

For a CCW gun that could be confiscated in a shooting investigation, $500 is high as I go or at least a gun that can easily be replaced.

I'd avoid this vaporgun but will state that they do have the best gun manufacturer website out there!

 

[Blackhawk]

Duncan, it's not polymer. It's stainless with an aluminum frame.

You don't have to avoid vaporguns, BTW....

 

[harrydog]

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss this gun. The concept is one that would work for me, and high quality is always one of my priorities, so I'm anxious to see these guns thoroughly tested.
I am not a fan of aluminum guns however, so I'm still hoping they produce an all 17-4 stainless version, or a titanium framed version.
I think the all stainless version is more likely to happen than a ti framed version, due to costs, but that's OK. The more people they hear from who express an interest in an all stainless version, the sooner they'll produce one.




Quote:
"Just for the record I wont touch a Khar, but if you want to support the family go ahead."

pale horse, just for the record, I'll buy several to make up for your lack of support.

 

[incursion]

This gun is the biggest tease ever. When are they going to hurry up and release the damn thing?

 

[Chan Bates]

Rohrbaugh Capital

These guys must have some large capital behind them to be in development for almost two years and have no sales! Good luck on an innovative approach to CCW.

This gun falls in between the 7-shot 10 oz (loaded) Kel-Tec P-3AT and the 11-shot 20 oz. (loaded) Kel-Tec 9MM, both size-wise and weight-wise. The website does not state that the 13.6 oz weight with the magazine is "loaded". Can we assume with 7 rounds of 9MM in a magazine it will be at least 16 oz? Weight of the safe DAO trigger pull? Don't like the heel mag release. Longer (3") barrel really wouldn't make the gun all that much bigger and might help with a bunch of mechanical issues (slide weight, recoil springs, bullet velocity and accuracy).

It will be interesting to see how this lightweight, two-fingered grip will act under recoil of loads with enough ooomph to gain sufficient velocity to perform out of a 2.7" barrel. One advantage to a polymer grip is that it softens recoil a little. An all metal gun will have less of an advantage here.

Despite the fact that it is nice to deliver two iterations (sights/no sights) to market at the same time, I really doubt that is what has held up the introduction of the basic pistol (President's message). Adding sights would seem to be a slide machining challenge that would have little effect on the actual internal mechanical operation of the gun. Most businesses need cash flow and would deliver product #1 as soon as it is ready while working on the cosmetic improvements to iteration #2 with some green flowing. I suspect we are seeing the results of continued mechanical balancing for such a small, light gun to get it to work reliably. That too is an appreciated approach. The gun should work before hitting the market, sights or no sights.

I wouldn't be surprised, if they really get it right, that they will have high distributor prices to recoup the capital investment. There are enough people out there willing to buy expensive, new guns that they can sell quite a few before having to bring the price into a reasonable range. Dealers will likely gouge a bit too. $850-$999 is probably what you will see on the street.

I wonder what production capacity is, and how much handwork is involved. Warranty? Limp wristing problems? Accessories?

I'll wait for the .40. CB3

 

[duncan]

You're right, only the grips look polymer/rubber.

Their team has some impressive credentials.

BUT if they don't produce those guns soon, people will start demanding their deposits back and their "venture capitaling" days will be over.

Just look at how Kimber just released their limited run of 9mm, 40SW, 10mm, and 38 super 1911s. Made the announcement of the concept, took deposits, and introduced the guns into the market in short order. So did Dan Wesson with their 10mm 1911s.

Here, these guys don't have any prodcution machines grinding out parts.

I fear that their production is wholly contracted out, they have promised vendors payment, they sold the "paper" on any contracts for these R-9s and they are financially struggling to get them made.

Even if they look great, I'd wait several months to see what flaws develop and how they provide customer service. For a $1K gun, they should be providing the absolute best service - especially as a new company - all eyes are on them.

We'll see

 

[smooth operator]

This will be interesting. If the price is going to be that high how many people will buy it? How many guns will they have to sell to meet overhead?
I think that they are gooing to have to sell a whole lot of guns & they may not be able to do it. KT's success lies in the price. How many people will be willing to part with 1k for a pocket gun when there are other alternatives? Judging from the responses on this thread they may have a tough go of it.

 

[WonderNine]

I already forgot. Are these guns +P+ rated?