Roll Crimp

[74shovel]

This is what I’m working on, Military 223 cases. I am trimming all cases and using the Dillon super swagger on the primer pockets. Using 55 grain jacked BT bullet with H322 powder and CCI primers.

I am loading 5000 of these stored in stripper clips and bandoleers in ammo cans. This is going to be my emergency ammo.

This is my first attempt at roll crimping. I have never felt the need to crimp for my particular needs until now. I have RCBS standard Remington 223 dies. I set the die per instructions to roll crimp the shells. But I’m having a hard time determining if they are crimping. I used a magnifying glass to check but really don’t see any difference.

Should I see a crimp? What should it look like?

I have searched old threads but wasn’t able to find an answer.

Thanks for your expert help.

 

[243winxb]

I’m having a hard time determining if they are crimping.

Put a flrs empty case in the ram/shell holder. Run to the top of its travel. Now screw the bullet seating/crimp die down till you feel the crimper touch the case mouth of the empty flrs/trimmed case. Lower ram, turn down crimper dies for the amount of crimp you want. OR take a loaded round that has the bullet/cannelure set to the correct COL. Run the round/ram all the way up. With seating stem removed, take the crimp die and screw die into the press, hand tighter/crimp by turning hard by hand. This way you will not over crimp. Works as long as all brass is trimmed to the exact same length.

 

[Walkalong]

Should I see a crimp? What should it look like?

Yes, you can see a roll crimp. The case mouth should be "rolled" or "rounded" over slightly into the cannelure. Way too much crimp can push back the shoulder expanding it slighly and cause chambering issues.

Like 243winxb posted, trimming all your cases to a set length (1.750 is what most use) will help insure a good consistent crimp on all your rounds.

Load a few like you think they should look and function test them. Make sure you are set up right and have tested ammo loaded with that setup before running off 5000 of them.

I can try to get a good pic of what it should look like when I get home, or maybe someone else can post one earlier.

 

[rcmodel]

This is going to be my emergency ammo.

If it was my emergency stash, I would use a Lee Collet FCD to apply the crimp.

It is non-dependent on exact case length, so there is no chance of buckling a shoulder by getting a long case in the crimp die.

The only major bad problem I ever had loading .223 for almost 40 years now was shoulder collapse issues from crimping with the seater die.
It can be so miner as to be invisible to the naked eye, and lock up an AR-15 tighter then a bulls patootie!

In addition to the Lee FCD die, I also recommend you get a L.E. Wilson or Dillon case guage, and check every loaded round in it for fit & function.

rcmodel

 

[243winxb]

Photo of Roll Crimp

View attachment 394876 This bullet could have been seated deeper. There is a light crimp, hard to see. If photo is inlarged, you will see some copper jacketing shaved on seating. (internet photo) This shaving can be done away with by crimping in a seperate operation. I do not crimp 223 ammo.

 

[74shovel]

Thanks for the great advise and picture.

I am trimming all my cases for these loads. My trimmed length is 1.750. I have a L.E. Wilson case gauge and use it.

I do not have a separate roll crimp die. Just my RCBS 2 die set. It says to seat the bullet to desired depth then back off the bullet seater. And raise the loaded shell up into the die and turn the die down until I feel it contact the shell. Then lower the shell out of the die and turn die in 1/8 turn increments until you reach your desired roll crimp. I was at ¼ turn when I got nervous about pushing the neck down.

I just added another 1/8 turn and now can see a roll crimp.

The only reason I decided to crimp is because I want to do as much as possible to insure a failsafe emergency stash.

I have been loading and shooting 223s since 1986 and never crimped and never had a significant failure. Maybe I’m just paranoid due to current events.

 

[243winxb]

The rifles chamber is still the only gauge that really matters. http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=5122717&postcount=25

 

[Walkalong]

True, but the only trouble I have I have ever had loading .223 is where I did not push the shoulder back just a hair too little and it locked up a tight chambered AR. When I got the round out, and ordered a case gauge, it would just barely stick out of the gauge, but it locked that AR up. It would fall in and out of my Mini 14's chamber.

For emergency ammo, like the poster is making, it needs to meet SAMMI spec so it can run in any .223/5.56 out there, not just his one chamber.

My emergency ammo, what little there is, is either factory, or loaded carefully by me and checked with my Wilson case gauge.

A taper crimp is more forgiving. Worse case is you fail a few rounds and they don't make the emergency stash ammo box.

 

[74shovel]

Well ya’ll have surely given me a lot to think about. I haven’t had any problems with my reloads jamming (yet) hopefully I won’t.

What I have gathered so far is that it is not really necessary to crimp the 223 and that I may be just asking for trouble by crimping?

I will research the use and need for the Small base dies. Something new to me again. LOL

I will continue to search and learn thanks. Dennis

 

[rcmodel]

There should be no need for small base dies either.

I'm using standard RCBS dies I bought new in 1970 to reload GI & commercial brass out of several different guns. (AR's, Mini's, Remington & CZ bolt guns)
No problems at all except as I noted earlier, about the partial shoulder collapse from crimping with the standard die.

If you just got to crimp, buy a $12 buck Lee Factory Crimp Die and be done with it!

rcmodel

 

[243winxb]

My standard RCBS 223 dies work fine in M16, Mini-14, Armalite AR-180, M70, T/C Contender. Sloppy chambers.