Ross M-10 280 Sporter

[Gordon]

plug for my very good condition R-10 "military" FACTORY sporter in .303 . It lacks the gloss finish and checkering of the rifle shown but pretty much the same otherwise. I been holding on to it many years now and want $600 for it. I must admit I have only put about 100 rounds thru it in 25 years, it shot to the sights at 50 yards with small groups and cycles super smooth. It is of later production I think it was Ross's try to get rid of their extra production for Military they had made but were turned down. I have been told by a Mountie that this model was popular with them during the 20th century but was not an issue weapon.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQPpcTFiUnA

 

[tark]

I'm getting the images directly from my cell phone, Jim. I just don't know what to do, I'm pretty computer stupid. It took me two years just to get to the point where I CAN post anything at all.

 

[jim in Anchorage]

Well I know nothing about cell[or is it smart?] phone cameras, but on my laptop I put my cameras card in and up load to my photo bucket account [PB will walk you through this] copy the URL and add the link. Believe me if it required computer savvy I would be lost. "] [/URL]

 

[Slamfire]

Back before I retired, I got an invite to attend the Canadian Ground Forces Training Center at Gagetown, NB. They have Rosses handing on the wall in the Officer's Mess, and the talk turned to them. I told the Canadians they should never have got rid of that rifle -- you have to be stupid to get the bolt in wrong, and by now all the stupid Canadians would have killed themselves and their national IQ would be 10 points higher.

Vern: Modern civilization has made us all stupid. Cell phones particularly are making the human race stupid, people don't know anything or remember anything, everything they need to know is on their cell phone. I am still navigating using maps and compass, hardly anyone does that any more.

But, most humans probably don't have your mechanical aptitude. It surprises me to find people who don't have a mechanical aptitude. One shooter in my Gun Club, lets call him Major King, he is a Vietnam Combat Veteran, shot at and killed VC, but he has zero mechanical aptitude. He has to be trained to memorize step by step how to take apart and reassemble his weapons. As an example, twice he took apart a Mosin Nagant bolt, and twice he brought the bolt to the range so I could show him how to reassemble. I think he has got the process down, but he could forget, and then we are back to reassembling the thing for him. I am totally surprised that a guy could make Major, run a Company, fill out all the forms, sound so intelligent on Politics, etc, and not be able to assemble a Mosin bolt, but, there you are.

While the all volunteer Army is better than the old draftee Army, these guys will do things to equipment that is beyond Science Fiction. God bless them all, but complicated machines, confusing machines, are not for them. If the parts can be assembled in the wrong order, they will get assembled in the wrong order. This incidentally true of the M60 machine gun, the firing pin assembly will go together in the wrong sequence.

 

[Jim Watson]

This goes back a long way to the Benet Mercie which could be - and apparently often was - assembled so as to fire once and quit.


I recall the article in a gunzine where the author met an elderly French-Canadian on the range doing good work with a Ross mounted with an elaborate scope sight.
"What did you do?"
"I train ze sniper."

 

[Merle1]

Very cool rifle tark. I love bolt guns from that era. But like my sweetheart, the Newton, I would worry about the stock splitting with full power loads.

Bolt guns I have that are old, and prone to cracking stocks, get feed a diet of mostly light cast bullet loads. But I do hunt with them, so they do shoot full power loads at times, but I don't make a habit of it.

As far as finishing it, hard to go wrong with a rust blue and a oil finish stock.

The .280 Ross got a bad rep in it's day because some limp wristed British Earl or duke, what ever his standing was, got et by a lion when his HV .280 bullet broke up rather then penetrating.
It may be possible to plate .284 bullets up to .288. Or swage down .308's. Some thing to look at.

I would look into "bumping up" some .284 bullets if it were me.
I would also be concerned about the case expanding that much at the base.

All in all, I'd look up some of the non-belted cases of that size, and shoot cast bullets in it just to be on the safe side.

 

[Jim Watson]

I googled mention of .280 Ross made of .375 Ruger to avoid the belt reforming matter.

Bumping up bullets is feasible but takes time and equipment.

 

[tark]

Jim if I remember correctly, the 375 Ruger case is 30-06 length. That is too short to form 280 Ross cases.

Merle1, the expansion ahead of the belt on a 300 H&H case only happens once. When you reform in a 280 die, the brass in that area IS NOT squeezed back to its original diameter, it remains the expanded diameter. 300 H&H brass is very thick and strong, and I have never had any trouble in reloading the cases five or even six times.

 

[jim in Anchorage]

Not sure I get this reforming a .300 H&H thing. So is the belt inside the chamber?

 

[Merle1]

Jim if I remember correctly, the 375 Ruger case is 30-06 length. That is too short to form 280 Ross cases.

Merle1, the expansion ahead of the belt on a 300 H&H case only happens once. When you reform in a 280 die, the brass in that area IS NOT squeezed back to its original diameter, it remains the expanded diameter. 300 H&H brass is very thick and strong, and I have never had any trouble in reloading the cases five or even six times.

OK, since I have never done this I really can't say how it works. But the thought of shoving the case sideways at the belt makes me a bit nervous.

 

[tark]

No need for nervousness Merle1. The diameter of the Ross case is .523 which is the same diameter as the BELT on a 300 H&H. The case expands gradually , using a light, fireforming load, to the required diameter and then it is done. When you run the case into the FL die to reload the expanded section of the case IS NOT squeezed back to its original diameter, it stays right where it is. I have sectioned cases after fireforming, one reload, three reloads and five reloads. There is no additional stretching of the brass. Ill see if I can get a pic on my cell phone and post it.

 

[tark]

this is a pretty good pic. The two fired cases on the right (I hope they're on the right) show the slight expansion necessary. The case on the left has not been fired yet and you can see the lack of expansion. This may sound or even look a little risky, but it most certainly is not, it is an accepted and time tested way to make 280 brass.

 

[tark]

OK, the left. I think I'm about to shoot this damn computer. (With a 280 Ross, of course)

 

[Merle1]

No need for nervousness Merle1. The diameter of the Ross case is .523 which is the same diameter as the BELT on a 300 H&H. The case expands gradually , using a light, fireforming load, to the required diameter and then it is done. When you run the case into the FL die to reload the expanded section of the case IS NOT squeezed back to its original diameter, it stays right where it is. I have sectioned cases after fireforming, one reload, three reloads and five reloads. There is no additional stretching of the brass. Ill see if I can get a pic on my cell phone and post it.

OK, thanks. I was imagining it blowing straight out, in a sort of shearing action, to be flush with the belt.

 

[Merle1]

this is a pretty good pic. The two fired cases on the right (I hope they're on the right) show the slight expansion necessary. The case on the left has not been fired yet and you can see the lack of expansion. This may sound or even look a little risky, but it most certainly is not, it is an accepted and time tested way to make 280 brass.

OK, thanks for the pics - that really makes it clear.

 

[Jim Watson]

if I remember correctly, the 375 Ruger case is 30-06 length. That is too short to form 280 Ross cases.

The .280 is 2.59" case length, the .375 Ruger is 2.58".
Would sizing to a smaller caliber and more taper get you that .01"?

I dunno. I have not done any radical reforming, .45-70 to .33 WCF and .40-65 is about it. If you don't count .30-30 to .357 Herrett (ugh.)

 

[Vern Humphrey]

While the all volunteer Army is better than the old draftee Army, these guys will do things to equipment that is beyond Science Fiction. God bless them all, but complicated machines, confusing machines, are not for them. If the parts can be assembled in the wrong order, they will get assembled in the wrong order. This incidentally true of the M60 machine gun, the firing pin assembly will go together in the wrong sequence.

As old Colonel Karl Brumbach used to say, "Put the average soldier in the middle of the Sahara with a case of C-rations and an anvil. When you come back you'll find a pile of crap and a broken anvil."

But you have to WORK to get the bolt in wrong in the Ross -- really WORK at it.

 

[tark]

I stand corrected, Jim I'll have to look into the 375 Ruger as a source of cases. It would be nice not to have that unnecessary belt on the case.