Round Nose Feed Problem

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Mr_Flintstone

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I recently made some round nose soft point loads for my Yugo M48 Mauser. They feed correctly from the right side of the magazine (rounds 1, 3, and 5), but they won't feed correctly from the left side (rounds 2 and 4). When I try to chamber the left side rounds, they hang up (probably hitting the breech face).
action2.jpg
Do you think this is because the round nose rounds are shorter than spitzers and spire points (which seem to feed fine), or because of the round nose? Or could it possibly be something else entirely?
 
I have the same issue with SP and my 223 rilfes they will not feed from the mag or free hand i have to feed them directly into the chamber by hand.
 
On a controlled feed Mauser action there are three conditions that usually keep a bullet from feeding properly. The easiest one to solve is that the bullet may be seated too far out. To solve this I would seat the bullets on some test rounds .010 deeper and try them. If that doesn't work seat them at .020 deeper and try again. By the time you get to .040 deeper they should chamber easily if overall length is the problem. The second problem could be that the rim of the cartridge is not slipping easily up onto the extractor. Look for a flat place on the tip of the lip on the extractor where the rim first contacts the extractor. If the rim is sticking on the extractor take a small jewelers file and slim down the tip of the lip on the bottom of the extractor so the rim slips up easily. You can do this without removing the extractor from the bolt body. Cartridges on the right side of the magazine box come in contact with the extractor earlier in the stroke. Although it is not likely, the magazine spring could be weak which allows the back of the cartridge to tip down when the round first starts to move forward. Watch the back of the cartridge when it is chambered to see if it moves down. In your picture the back of the cartridge has not contacted the extractor which may indicate a weak magazine spring. Do the overall cartridge length first, check the extractor second, and replace the magazine spring third. I had this same problem a few week ago and as I went through each step the feeding improved. When I finished I had shortened the overall length, slimmed down the tip of the extractor, and changed the magazine spring. At the end of the changes the action cycled smoothly. Good luck.
 
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Round nose could certainly be a problem. Over all length can affect cartridge feeding.
Was this rifle designed for round nose or spitzer? The answer may be informative ...
If you like round nose then is it possible to maybe use a heavier bullet and increase oal and see how that works?
 
On a controlled feed Mauser action there are three conditions that usually keep a bullet from feeding properly. The easiest one to solve is that the bullet may be seated too far out. To solve this I would seat the bullets on some test rounds .010 deeper and try them. If that doesn't work seat them at .020 deeper and try again. By the time you get to .040 deeper they should chamber easily if overall length is the problem. The second problem could be that the rim of the cartridge is not slipping easily up onto the extractor. Look for a flat place on the tip of the lip on the extractor where the rim first contacts the extractor. If the rim is sticking on the extractor take a small jewelers file and slim down the tip of the lip on the bottom of the extractor so the rim slips up easily. You can do this without removing the extractor from the bolt body. Cartridges on the right side of the magazine box come in contact with the extractor earlier in the stroke. Although it is not likely, the magazine spring could be weak which allows the back of the cartridge to tip down when the round first starts to move forward. Watch the back of the cartridge when it is chambered to see if it moves down. In your picture the back of the cartridge has not contacted the extractor which may indicate a weak magazine spring. Do the overall cartridge length first, check the extractor second, and replace the magazine spring third. I had this same problem a few week ago and as I went through each step the feeding improved. When I finished I had shortened the overall length, slimmed down the tip of the extractor, and changed the magazine spring. At the end of the changes the action cycled smoothly. Good luck.
I don't think it's the extractor either. the rounds always jam before they contact the extractor. I'll do some length tests later today. Do most Mausers use the same magazine/follower spring? When I search specifically for the M48, they are always out of stock. It seems that the 98 versions are always in stock though.
 
Numrich Gun Parts Corporation has Yugo M48 used magazine springs for sale listed at $5.90. Their part number is 6510c. Look them up on Google. It's a used spring so who knows if it's better than the one you have. Their parts people may know if a M98 spring is the same.
 
Round nose could certainly be a problem. Over all length can affect cartridge feeding.
Was this rifle designed for round nose or spitzer? The answer may be informative ...
If you like round nose then is it possible to maybe use a heavier bullet and increase oal and see how that works?
From what I’ve read, these were designed for heavy military Spitzer rounds. The rifle also has a flat breech face instead of angled. I watched a round slowly as I tried to chamber it, and it hits flat against the right side of the breech face. I tried varying the OAL, and it didn’t make much of a difference. The follower spring doesn’t appear weak, but I guess it could be.
 
On a controlled feed Mauser action there are three conditions that usually keep a bullet from feeding properly. The easiest one to solve is that the bullet may be seated too far out. To solve this I would seat the bullets on some test rounds .010 deeper and try them. If that doesn't work seat them at .020 deeper and try again. By the time you get to .040 deeper they should chamber easily if overall length is the problem. The second problem could be that the rim of the cartridge is not slipping easily up onto the extractor. Look for a flat place on the tip of the lip on the extractor where the rim first contacts the extractor. If the rim is sticking on the extractor take a small jewelers file and slim down the tip of the lip on the bottom of the extractor so the rim slips up easily. You can do this without removing the extractor from the bolt body. Cartridges on the right side of the magazine box come in contact with the extractor earlier in the stroke. Although it is not likely, the magazine spring could be weak which allows the back of the cartridge to tip down when the round first starts to move forward. Watch the back of the cartridge when it is chambered to see if it moves down. In your picture the back of the cartridge has not contacted the extractor which may indicate a weak magazine spring. Do the overall cartridge length first, check the extractor second, and replace the magazine spring third. I had this same problem a few week ago and as I went through each step the feeding improved. When I finished I had shortened the overall length, slimmed down the tip of the extractor, and changed the magazine spring. At the end of the changes the action cycled smoothly. Good luck.

I love posts like this. Incredibly informative, obvious you’ve done your homework and I learned something new.
 
The RN rounds are probably shorter than the spitzer rounds. When you load the RN cartridges are you loading them evenly to the rear of the mag? If they are staggered in the mag they may not get picked up by the extractor. This is a control feed action and isn't suppose to push the round in and snap over. It's suppose to pick up the rim and guide it to the chamber straight. The front of the hook is beveled so it can snap over but thats not good practice to do it a lot. Make a dummy round with the RN bullet the same length as the spitzer if you can and try it.
 
Do you think this is because the round nose rounds are shorter than spitzers and spire points (which seem to feed fine), or because of the round nose?

I have a Mauser action with the same problem. Jams with round nose bullets. Feeds fine with spitzers. I am of the opinion that the spitzer spans a gap and lifts the cartridge front end.

Your rifle is a military action, was built to fire with military ammunition, which used spitzer bullets. You want a magazine fed weapon, you are going to have to dump the round nose bullets.
 
I watched really close as a round fed into the breech of a controlled feed rifle. In fact, I tried it on 3 different rifles. In a smooth feeding rifle the cartridge stays nearly flat as it moves forward. The extractor does not touch the bullet until the bullet starts into the chamber. When the bullet hits the top of the chamber the friction pushes the rear of the cartridge up and in turn pushes the cartridge rim up onto the extractor. So, to feed smoothly the bullet tip must align and be inside the circle of the chamber when it goes forward and the cartridge rim must easily slide over the extractor. The smaller point of the pointed spitzer comes into alignment with the chamber easier because the smaller point has an easier tendency to be inside the chamber as it goes forward. The Mauser does not have a coned breaching system like a Model 70 so it is far easier for the bullet to hit the flat surface of the barrel shank if the front of the bullet is too high. I looked at a picture of a M48 tenon (barrel shank) and they are flat on the rear. I think your bullet is hitting the flat surface on the top of the barrel shank. The flatter the cartridge stays as it moves forward the easier it feeds.
 
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I recently made some round nose soft point loads for my Yugo M48 Mauser. They feed correctly from the right side of the magazine (rounds 1, 3, and 5), but they won't feed correctly from the left side (rounds 2 and 4). When I try to chamber the left side rounds, they hang up (probably hitting the breech face).
View attachment 789077
Do you think this is because the round nose rounds are shorter than spitzers and spire points (which seem to feed fine), or because of the round nose? Or could it possibly be something else entirely?

I would love to know the answer to this myself !!!!!
I have 2 German Mausers K98's & neither will load the round nose ammo.
I even took one custom version to a gunsmith who told me her couldn't figure
it out. I believe he just didn't want to take me on as a new customer which is the story of
my life. Maybe I should dress like I have money, I guess the rags fool em.
I ended up loading that one with Nosler Ballistic Tip 8mm 180 grain which
run in it perfect, come to think of it I haven't even tried them in the 1941 version.
I will watch this thread for any info, but that's all I have on it.
 
I decided to just do a workaround. I made two dummy 150 gr spire point rounds. I load them in #2 and #4, and my round nose in #1, #3, and #5. I only get 3 rounds per full magazine, but I don’t have to stop and hand feed the rounds. I just pick up the dummy rounds and reload them in the next bunch. I colored them with a sharpie so I could quickly tell them from live rounds.

EF617998-B14D-4539-9BAE-7286672D870B.jpeg
 
I decided to just do a workaround. I made two dummy 150 gr spire point rounds. I load them in #2 and #4, and my round nose in #1, #3, and #5. I only get 3 rounds per full magazine, but I don’t have to stop and hand feed the rounds. I just pick up the dummy rounds and reload them in the next bunch. I colored them with a sharpie so I could quickly tell them from live rounds.

View attachment 789236
sage 5907 above had a very detail postings about the issues above. Kudos to him.

This is my take after messing around with military mausers from the 1871/84 to the m48. The receivers on these rifles were machined to be reliable with specific military issued ammunition as long as other components are up to snuff--the mag spring strength, the magazine follower, even the swirling machining marks on the bottom of the magazine where the mag spring goes are for a purpose. As far as the Yugos or the German 98's, after 1905, both the 7x57 and 8x57 used spitzer bullets and any decent Mauser that has not been monkeyed with feeds these with pretty monotonous accuracy with other components being within specs. Round nose bullet profiles were never issued for a m98 type military mauser by a major power and thus I suspect the geometry of the feed lips and the mag follower combined with the different bullet profile and OAL are off which causes the bullet to off enough to not enter the chamber. You have an additional issue in that the m48 is not a true full length 98 receiver but an intermediate length that complicates things.

I suspect that you might be able to alter a magazine follower to feed the round nose via trial and error using a file but would not recommend altering the feeding lips of the receiver as it might then cause problems in feeding spitzers. Always alter the cheapest part. I also suspect that the m48 magazine springs from Numrich probably have little use and might help issues here. I have a Yugo but have never had reason to check the magazine spring but it might very well be different.

I also suspect that you and Slamfire hit the reason why the coned barrel was used in the Springfield 03--the Krag is finicky about shooting spitzers as the receiver feeding was designed for round nosed bullets but has a flat face barrel like the Mauser. When the move was made from the .30-03 to the .30-06 spitzer, the U.S. Army might have feared magazine feeding problems with a flat barrel face like a Mauser (the less generous idea is that it was designed to get around Mauser's patents)--Slamfire might know more about this as he digs around in very old archival stuff. I do know that some people have experimented with a 1917 U.S. Rifle using a flat faced barrel instead of the issue coned one as the barrels for the P14 were not coned and it worked.

Good luck.
 
I also suspect that you and Slamfire hit the reason why the coned barrel was used in the Springfield 03--the Krag is finicky about shooting spitzers as the receiver feeding was designed for round nosed bullets but has a flat face barrel like the Mauser. When the move was made from the .30-03 to the .30-06 spitzer, the U.S. Army might have feared magazine feeding problems with a flat barrel face like a Mauser (the less generous idea is that it was designed to get around Mauser's patents)--Slamfire might know more about this as he digs around in very old archival stuff. I do know that some people have experimented with a 1917 U.S. Rifle using a flat faced barrel instead of the issue coned one as the barrels for the P14 were not coned and it worked.

Feed and extraction were carefully examined and engineered into all successful military actions. It is almost getting to be an after thought for commercial actions, and if you read Ottesen's series The Bolt Action he describes some 1960-1970's era actions that were particularly horrible in this regard.

I recommend anyone wanting to experience the full frustration of different bullet profiles experiment on a GI M1911 with various aftermarket magazines, and wadcutter ammunition. The GI 1911 was designed for a round nose bullet. Lead semi wad cutter bullets have feed reliability issues with the GI barrel. It was common, up to the 1980's, to pay Gunsmiths to "throat the barrel"

2027BBLTHROATS2.jpg

This picture, plus a number of the shenanigans necessary to get a 1911 to feed correctly can be found here

How to of 1911's
http://www.gunownersofcanada.ca/sho...-of-1911-s&s=34b3546a5a84945f7917cfca0bacfb6d

As someone who has monkeyed around, bending feed lips, experimenting with feed lip angles, the angle of cartridge approach, the timing of release, is not a simple subject, but are critical to reliable cartridge feed. Breech type is not a panacea for a poorly designed or poorly manufactured action. I can say, I have a cone breech M70 (claw extractor action) that was improperly machined at the factory, and cartridges fed on the left, will release late, and nose dive right into the extractor groove cut into the barrel shank. What bullet profile is used, what cartridge length is used, what cartridge taper ,shoulder angle is used, what follower is used, all will make a difference in cartridge angle of approach and release.

Soldiers were issued a rifle and issued ammunition that had been tested to feed and extract reliably. You wander beyond the parameters set by the original equipment manufacturer's, your rifle may not feed your bullets. The simple solution is to find the bullets that work. I do not recommend any grinding, welding, etc, as you may spend a lot of money to ruin a perfectly functional action.

I have a slave labor K98. The workers on the line deliberately messed up the geometry of the action and nothing short of a new receiver will make that rifle feed reliably. But then, that's what the slave laborers were intending.

Incidentally, workers in those Communist worker's paradises, lacked motivation. I have a German capture K98 that the Yugo's rebuilt, with a brand new 0.328" diameter barrel, which shoots standard 0.323 bullets rather badly. I remember the Yugo car, a friend bought one, this was when Yugoslavia was still Commie. The Yugo was an Italian Fiat built in Communist Yugoslavia, anyone old enough might understand how the combination was a natural prelude to a disaster. My friend mentioned that his Yugo would have made a "decent car" (probably wishful thinking) with 20 more hours of quality control. His car, had such stupid problems as wiring harnesses not inserted into the frame hangers. It did not take long for the Yugo to gain the reputation as one of the worst cars ever made.
 
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