Ruger 77 RSI - relieving the stock end cap

[Newtosavage]

Could use some advice here before I destroy what may be the most beautiful gun I've ever owned.

Just picked up a stainless Ruger 77 MkII RSI (full stock) in 7x57 the other day. Got a deal I couldn't pass up, so I figured she didn't shoot worth a flip. Nobody sells a gun like that if it can shoot. LOL.

Took it to the range yesterday morning and with 139-grain Prvi Partisan - an ammo I've actually had pretty good luck with in the past - it was suffering from vertical stringing of 3-4" at 100 yards. Groups were no more than 1.5" wide, but stringing up to 4" vertically.

I just happened to remember my chronograph and the velocities ranged from 2450 down to 2390. Not sure if that's considered " a lot " but I doubt it's enough to result in 3-4" variance at just 100 yards. So I suspect what this gun writer found with his RSI is true with mine as well:

http://www.tactical-life.com/firear...50-savage-classic-rifle-reborn-_-gun-review-1

I am interested in starting with relieving the contact between the stock end cap and the barrel band that holds the sight. I figure even I can't screw that up too bad.

I've not removed the stock yet and wanted to ask what to watch out for when I do. Also, I'm not crazy about trying glass bedding without someone looking over my shoulder, as I've never seen it done in person and I'm afraid I'd lock my action into my stock forever if I made a mistake or two.

As for the groups, I'm sure that once I begin handloading those will shrink a little, but I doubt it could hurt anything to relieve the metal to metal contact between the stock end cap and the barrel, so I figured I'd start with that and see if it makes any difference.

Thanks for any and all help you can offer.

 

[Newtosavage]

Nobody done one?

I got impatient (no surprise) and carefully removed the action screws, then the screw holding the cap on the end of the stock, and gently wiggled it all while pulling on the cap. Eventually it came off with a great deal of pulling and wiggling.

I immediately went to work on the barrel channel with some sandpaper. A few minutes with sandpaper on the tip of my finger had the barrel free floated from the action to the front sight. But that's where it got interesting.

The front sight lays flush in the stock and is captured by the stainless stock cap. There was contact everywhere, so I took the cap and started filing metal away a little at a time. This is the nice thing about stainless vs. blued - it doesn't show when you file it.

Then thinking about what I wanted to do with the sight-stock interface, I decided to try and support the sight with a thin nylon washer to gain a little space and see if a poor man's bedding job with some upward pressure would help things. I continued to remove material from the cap until nothing touched the barrel at all. It was a LOT more material than I had expected, but I got it freed from the barrel, and it still looks original when installed.

So now the only part of the barrel that touches the stock is the very tip under the sight, and it's supported by a thin nylon washer, at least for now. Going to see how it shoots tomorrow, and if I still get the vertical stringing, then it's back to the drawing board. Will report back.

 

[CaptTripps]

Good luck with it. Since you asked for advice I will tell you I would have experimented a bit more before modifying the rifle. Did you check the action screws, scope mounts, crown, everything? You tried one band of ammo in one weight? I don;t know how the cap is held onto the stock but I would have tried to removed that in its entirety then test-fire.

 

[Newtosavage]

CaptTripps, I was careful to check all those things first.

I realize it's only one brand of ammo, but it's a brand I've always had good luck with, and the vertical stringing vs. the chrono pointed directly to a barrel contact problem IMO so I figured I'd at least remove that variable. You cannot even tell I did anything to the rifle, so I don't think it will hurt it's value at all. It's easy enough to remove the stainless cap now, so I'll try a few groups with the nylon washer "bedding" under the front barrel band, and a few without to see if it makes a difference. If the gun writer I cited above is correct, then bedding the lug screw area and the area under the front sight should make things more consistent.

I don't need a whole lot more accuracy from this gun, as it's realistically a 250-yard hunting rifle, but consistent 2" groups or better at 100 would be most welcome. I do plan to hand load for it soon, so I'm pretty sure I can cut that group size some with my handloads.

I just didn't see what harm relieving the barrel from the stock and stock end cap could do. It can only help as there was contact in at least three places on the stock and on the shoulders of the front sight band from the cap.

 

[Newtosavage]

In case anyone is following, I headed to the range to see what the results might be. I did support the muzzle with a teflon washer after floating the barrel and relieving the metal on either side from the end cap. Intially, the results were a little better, but not a lot. But I could tell a difference. I then swapped the teflon washer with a thinner nylon one, and the groups got even better. In fact, at one point I shot 4 rounds into a 2" group at 200 yards. I just about called it a day, but was concerned about that nylon washer staying put long term, and I was really curious to see what a full float job would do.

So I spent about an hour this evening carefully removing material near the end of the stock and finally achieved a full float. I then had to deepen the groove in the stainless end cap, but that was pretty straightforward. So now I have a fully floated barrel from the chamber to the muzzle. Next trip to the range, I'll see how that performs.

If I still get stringing, I'm going to go back to a slight upward pressure point at the muzzle with a neoprene or nylon washer.

These Mannlicher stocks are beautiful, but I have to admit they are a bit of a PITA. LOL.

 

[BBBBill]

In case anyone is following...

Yep.

 

[Newtosavage]

Managed to get off a few rounds at a target today. The full float seems to be helping. 2" round group at 100 yards. Next up are reloads with 120 and 162-grain bullets. Hoping to get those long 162's near the lands to see if that makes a difference too. Press and dies are on their way. Will post back when I have more info.

Got a little blood on her today. Pig #1 with that rifle was DRT.

Incidentally, there was enough upward pressure from the stock on that barrel to move the point of impact nearly two feet at 100 yards. I almost missed the backstop with my first shot and it took me a trip down to the target to figure out where it even hit.

I have researched up pressure on thin barrels until my eyes were bloodshot, and my gut keeps telling me to full float it. I just don't think I can have confidence in a wood stock hunting rifle that applies upward pressure on the muzzle. I can't see how the POI would not change with temperature and moisture, and that's the whole point of a hunting rifle - to be out in that stuff.

 

[Newtosavage]

A few more shots today - strung out over the course of an hour to make sure the barrel had cooled off completely. 3-shot group with the Prvi 139 grain and fully floated barrel was still strung in a nearly 4" vertical line, with each consecutive shot shooting lower than the previous one. Grrr. Not really any improvement vs. the upward stock pressure.

Next thing to try will be handloads, and if that doesn't do the trick, then I'll use some silicone O-rings to put some up pressure on the barrel again and see what happens. I have another scope in the mail, and will try that as well.

I have to say, the accuracy concerns with these 77 RSI's are well founded based on my experience. I have shot two Rugers of the older design - a Mini-14 and this 77 Hawkeye and neither would group worth a darn at 100 yards. However, their new American is a tack driver. I'm gonna be very disappointed if I can't get this rifle to shoot.

 

[Hairy Clipper]

I had an RSI in .243 years ago that I bought new. A beautiful rifle that I really liked ... except for one thing. I sighted in 1.5" high at 100 yards on a 95 degree F. day. When I went hunting here in Minnesota opening day was about -10 F. Late in the day I had a shot at about 130 yards from a crossbar on my tree stand. I lined up for a heart shot and at the shot, the deer dropped like a rock. I get down and cannot find a hole in the area I had aimed. Perplexing at the time. The two holes were about 1/4" apart at the top of the shoulder. That .243 bullet shattered the spine! Another 1/4" higher I would have missed. When Spring rolled around I went back and checked the sights. Cold barrel was about 14 inches high. After shooting 7 rounds the barrel warmed up and would put 5 shots inside and inch and an eighth centered an inch and a half high at 100 yards.. As painful as it was I traded it off for a Winchester M70 .243 featherweight that shot much better cold or warm than the RSI did.

Good luck with your project. They really are sweet rifles.

 

[Newtosavage]

Hairy, this rifle strings vertically like no gun I've ever shot. It's crazy.

I took ONE last shot at this thing this evening. I really don't want contact with the stock if I can help it. Playing with the front (angled) action screw, I realized if I used a bigger screwdriver, I could get a LOT more torque on it. Like a half turn more at least. So that could be where some of that stringing was coming from. But, when I torqued the hell out of that screw, the floating barrel went away. Ugh. So, I doubled the shims under the front of the action, and took a little more material out of the barrel channel. Reassembled and torqued the hell out of that action screw. I can't put any more torque on it by hand.

Barrel is "just" floated - as checked with a thick piece of paper. If it still strings, I am putting that beautiful stock away and dropping that action in a synthetic stock.

It's hard to find a 7x57 in a Ruger action. I don't want to give up on this one.

 

[BBBBill]

Ruger 77 torque specs per Ruger:
1. Loosen all 3 bolts on bottom of receiver.
2. Tighten the front angle lug screw to 95 inch pounds in once step. Do not alternate tightening with the rear screw.
3. Tighten the rear screw very tight by hand, then back out 1/8 turn.
4. Snug the middle screw, but not too tight for the magazine cover to latch.

Bedding the action may prove to be the final solution.

 

[Newtosavage]

Thanks BBB. I found those specs elsewhere, and that's what I did. I don't have an inch-pound torque wrench, but I torqued that front angled screw as hard as I possibly can with my largest screwdriver, until it felt like it "stopped." I then did the rest of the sequence with the rear two screws. I shimmed under the front of the action with aluminum shims until I could torque that front screw down as hard as possible, but still have the barrel free floated. Took 4 shims, but I got what I wanted. Will try again today and see if I still get the vertical stringing. If not, then that's what the problem was and I can see what handloads will do to shrink the overall group. But so long as I still see vertical stringing, the best handloads in the world aren't going to fix that. That's an action-fitment issue. Like you say, I will probably end up bedding that stock, if I even decide to keep the action in that stock. Right now I'm thinking I'm going to pull that Mannlicher stock and set it aside, and put the action in a synthetic stock that's pillar bedded to hunt with.

Love the round. Just not sure I love the way it shoots in that fancy stock.

 

[Newtosavage]

Little too soon to call it, but the few shots I got off today showed promise. Group was not vertical for a change, and about 2" at 100 yards off a less than perfect rest. An hour later, I fired one shot at 100 and it was dead center. Pretty thrilled about that.

I've always had good luck with the Prvi Partisan rounds. They have shot well out of everything I've fed them to, so if I can get them to group inside 2" at 100, I'm confident my hand loads will improve on that. But for now, I'm hopeful that the added shim and the super-torqued angled action screw did the trick. Maybe, just maybe that stock will get to stay on that action.

Incidentally, I like that 2-7x33 Leupold scope a lot more than I expected to. Tested it in very low light yesterday evening, and even at 7x it was plenty bright. I think it's a great choice for weight-conscious projects.

 

[Hairy Clipper]

Newtosavage-Glad to hear there is progress being made.

 

[Newtosavage]

Well, I wish I could say it was. Took her to the range tonight and the best I could do off sandbags was 3" at 100 yards. That just stinks.

Handloading dies will be here in a few days, and I'll see if the ammo is the issue. I've read that Ruger's have very long throated chambers, so I will do a check and see how far to the lands it is, and load some accordingly.

I can't believe that Prvi ammo is that bad. But I've floated the barrel and tightened the action screws, shimmed the action and let the barrel completely cool between shots. That's all I know to do so far.

I want this 7x57 to shoot pretty badly, so I'm not giving up yet. If the handloads don't show improvement, I may restock it and set the Mannlicher stock aside for now.

 

[Newtosavage]

Still damn happy with that scope though. Much, much better than the $209 I paid for it. Much better.

 

[adcoch1]

I am not positive, but if I remember correctly the throat length in Ruger barrels is excessively long for certain calibers. My 338 was that way and it was picky on ammo because of it. And I seem to remember hearing a lot of negative reviews from people on Rugers in 7x57. In fact I had to prove to a buddy of mine that 7x57 was a shooter due to some bad experience he had with, iirc, a Ruger. I pulled out the old chelaen Mauser and shot 3 old shotgun hulls at 100 yards. Then he did it too. It would be a shame though if you can't make that rifle shoot, it surely is beautiful.

 

[Newtosavage]

I agree. It's one of the prettiest rifles I've ever seen which is why I had to own it.

I will run my 162 grain bullets out and see if that helps.

This rifle has me wondering if Savage ever produced 7x57 barrels. Both of my Savages are easily sub-MOA rifles. Guess I'm spoiled.

 

[adcoch1]

I saw a savage 7x57 custom barrel somewhere online a few days ago. I was perusing for a long 30-06 barrel and saw that, maybe midway? I was using Google for savage 110 barrels is how I found it. I just can't remember what company it was through.

 

[Newtosavage]

Midway used to carry them, but they are no longer in stock. As accurate as both my Savage rifles are, I am damn tempted to just get one in 7x57 and call it a day. Been toying with the idea of selling this gun and getting Savage to make me a 7x57 Lightweight hunter out of their custom shop. Would be about the same $ I think. But I have always wanted a 77 Hawkeye, esp. in stainless, so I hate to give up on this one. If I restock it and hand load for it and still get 3" groups, I'm going to contact Ruger and see what they would be willing to do.

 

[Jim Watson]

A friend bought a Ruger 77 7x57, I don't know the alphabet soup model designation, but it is an ordinary halfstock, not Mannlicher like yours.
It was not much accurate with any ammo he could buy or load. It made two trips back to Ruger. The second time they sent it back with a target which looked good if not wonderful... until he noticed it was shot at 50 yards, not 100.

He found a real gunsmith and it is now a .280 with name brand barrel and shoots quite well for a wood stocked hunting rifle.

 

[Newtosavage]

Aw, now that's not what I want to hear. LOL. Half the reason I bought this gun was because I wanted a 7x57 Mauser. Maybe they just screwed up with the long throats? My reloading equipment will be here tomorrow, and this weekend I intend to find out if that's the issue. I have shimmed the action, torqued the hell out of the front action screw and completely floated the barrel. Not sure what else I can do, or am willing to do besides find decent hand loads. I could put it in a new stock, but then I already have a great shooting .308 in a synthetic stock, so what would the point be then?

 

[Jim Watson]

I was reluctant to add to the negativity, but felt like you had a right to know.

On the positive side, you could shoot it with iron sights like W.D.M. Bell.

 

[Newtosavage]

I have considered that. That rifle would look damn sexy with just a NECG rear aperture sight on it.

Only my Win-94 is already my 100-yard and in "brush" gun with an aperture sight. Not sure I really need two of them.

 

[Newtosavage]

Just an update for those following:

I've now completely free-floated the barrel. Still looks original and I'm very happy with the job. The free-floating certainly didn't hurt accuracy. Most likely it helped from what I'm seeing at the range so far. Groups are still stringing vertical 2:1 vs. horizontal, but not nearly as large.

Started handloading, and a few combinations have shown promise. Shot my first 3-shot 1" group yesterday with 162-grain Hornady SST's over 33 grains of H4895. 2100 fps. out of that 18.5" barrel. Oddly enough despite the very long throat, the rounds built to the 3.00" COAL spec (from the reloading guide) are grouping better than those with the bullet seated near the lands (3.167"). Works for me. I'm seating those long 162's near the cannelure, and there's a 0.167" jump to the lands, but they are grouping.

Will be playing with more handloads, and I've decided I'm going to order a Hogue pillar-bedded stock to drop that rifle in, and I'm going to put that beautiful walnut Mannlicher stock in storage for now. If that Hogue stock shoots well, that's what I'll use for hunting and I'll save the walnut stock for a grandkid's 16th birthday someday.