CraigC
Sixgun Nut
My numbers come off two different postal scales and have been verified through several sources. Sorry but there's no way your .357 is 34oz. It's got to be at least 38oz. My 6½" Old Model is 41oz.
Ruger Blackhawk .44 Spl.
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One_Jackal
member
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We really don't know the age of the gun. It's real hard to say what it went for new. I paid under $200 for my Super Blackhack brand new in the box. The exact same model game wardens in MS were carrying at the time. The same blued gun today would be over $500. I wouldn't trade it for a new stainless model. Nope. no way. not a chance. You don't get rid of something that has never failed in over 30 years.
Theory:
During times of threat to the Second Amendment having guns in not so popular calibers is always a good thing.
Case in point:
.475 Linebaugh and 375 H&H.
I bought my .475, and during that time Hornady was trying to run Buffalobore into the ground. I have a bunch of .475 Hornady factory ammo at 18 dollars for 20 rounds. It's now at least 30.
375 H&H:
Was buying Federal for around 25 dollars for 20 rounds, and bought a ton of
300 grain soft points from Weatherby for around 25.00 for 20. Last time I looked anything similar is around 75 dollars for 20 rounds.
If you have a gun, and you see a great ammo deal, you can jump on it.
In these times of stock market like ammo pricing this is a good thing.
Even if you don't reload.
I'm sure the .44 Special guys have run into similar ammo deals.
By the way:
Those prices for .475 and 375 H&H rounds come real close to what it would cost to buy the components for the calibers and reload. .475 and .375 bullets are not cheap, nor is the brass.
During times of threat to the Second Amendment having guns in not so popular calibers is always a good thing.
Case in point:
.475 Linebaugh and 375 H&H.
I bought my .475, and during that time Hornady was trying to run Buffalobore into the ground. I have a bunch of .475 Hornady factory ammo at 18 dollars for 20 rounds. It's now at least 30.
375 H&H:
Was buying Federal for around 25 dollars for 20 rounds, and bought a ton of
300 grain soft points from Weatherby for around 25.00 for 20. Last time I looked anything similar is around 75 dollars for 20 rounds.
If you have a gun, and you see a great ammo deal, you can jump on it.
In these times of stock market like ammo pricing this is a good thing.
Even if you don't reload.
I'm sure the .44 Special guys have run into similar ammo deals.
By the way:
Those prices for .475 and 375 H&H rounds come real close to what it would cost to buy the components for the calibers and reload. .475 and .375 bullets are not cheap, nor is the brass.
Smokin Gator
Member
I got one of the Ruger Lipsey 44 special 5 1/2" flattops when they came out. Was really interested in one and one of the local shops had one, one day. Didn't get it, but when I went back it was still there. Couldn't help myself the second time and got it. I sold 2 44 special Colt clones that I wasn't using anymore. Now I shoot SASS with 2 Ruger Vaquero 44 magnums loaded with 44 special or Russians, black powder. For the flat top I load the Skeeter load (240 or 250 gr. swc) and that's plenty for me. I haven't really fired many full house 44 Magnum rounds, let alone some of the more modern powerful revolver calibers. I also have a 44 special Taurus 2" snub nose. I do like big bore revolvers, but at more middle of the road velocity and recoil, not full magnums. Mark
lobo9er
Member
In this months American Hand gunner they feature an interesting 44spl by "reeder". Looks pretty nice. I am sure its not new to you guys but I have never seen their stuff. Re-chambered GP-100 to a 5 shot 44 spl.
lobo9er
Member
As far as "power" where is 44 spl compared to 45 colt?
BCRider
Member
The Hodgdon loading center info shows a 240 gn .44Spl travels at between around 850 to 900 fps give or take a little depending on the powder. It does this using chamber pressure of roughly 13,000 to 13,400 CUP. A 250 gn bullet at the top end of the .45Colt loading data intended for older Colts and their clones uses around the same pressure and pushes the bullet to the same speed range. The data doesn't show a 240gn bullet so I can't get an identical match.
All in all though it would appear to pretty much be a wash power wise. Oh, of course now we can get into a whole lot of hair splitting about the bigger hole of the .45. But really this sort of stuff only gets important if you're hunting. In that case the .45 takes it over the .44Spl because you can use heavier bullets in the Colt. But then again there's some heavy cast options in a .429 diameter available as well. So all in all I'd call these two cartridges as pretty much being equal for MOST practical purposes despite the fact that the .45Colt wins by a little if you're simply looking at the numbers.
What would be even more interesting would be to shoot similar guns chambered in these two cartridges with the rounds loaded to this same 13,200'ish pressure and similar bullets. We can banter around about the external ballistics all we want. But in the end it's how they handle and feel in our hands that is what we experience and determines how we react to shooting the gun and ammo.
For example with two identical New Model Vaqueros the .44Spl version SHOULD weigh a couple of ounces more due to the slightly smaller bore in the cylinder chambers and barrel. Also the pressure is pushing against an 11% smaller cross section area. Techincally all this SHOULD add up to a slightly softer recoil. But some of us like a little more punch so perhaps the .45 would be our cup o' tea....
And so 'round and 'round The Great .44 vs .45 Debate whirls like a giant ferris wheel while the Carnies gather 'round and pitch their schticks to the masses...
Bottom line though is that both are or would be great fun to shoot. There's something very different about shooting a "four something" that we simply do not get from the dainty little .38's that I shoot on a regular basis.
All in all though it would appear to pretty much be a wash power wise. Oh, of course now we can get into a whole lot of hair splitting about the bigger hole of the .45. But really this sort of stuff only gets important if you're hunting. In that case the .45 takes it over the .44Spl because you can use heavier bullets in the Colt. But then again there's some heavy cast options in a .429 diameter available as well. So all in all I'd call these two cartridges as pretty much being equal for MOST practical purposes despite the fact that the .45Colt wins by a little if you're simply looking at the numbers.
What would be even more interesting would be to shoot similar guns chambered in these two cartridges with the rounds loaded to this same 13,200'ish pressure and similar bullets. We can banter around about the external ballistics all we want. But in the end it's how they handle and feel in our hands that is what we experience and determines how we react to shooting the gun and ammo.
For example with two identical New Model Vaqueros the .44Spl version SHOULD weigh a couple of ounces more due to the slightly smaller bore in the cylinder chambers and barrel. Also the pressure is pushing against an 11% smaller cross section area. Techincally all this SHOULD add up to a slightly softer recoil. But some of us like a little more punch so perhaps the .45 would be our cup o' tea....
And so 'round and 'round The Great .44 vs .45 Debate whirls like a giant ferris wheel while the Carnies gather 'round and pitch their schticks to the masses...
Bottom line though is that both are or would be great fun to shoot. There's something very different about shooting a "four something" that we simply do not get from the dainty little .38's that I shoot on a regular basis.
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CraigC
Sixgun Nut
In factory ammo, the .45Colt has an advantage. It changes for the handloader. In these platforms, the .44Spl has the advantage and is the better choice. It's more efficient and due to greater cylinder strength, can be loaded 100-200fps faster with less powder. Whereas the .45Colt is limited to 21-22,000psi and is a lot of wasted powder capacity.
The difference might be an ounce. Certainly no more than that.
From a practical point of view I think it is really a wash between the two, here is a great article on teh .44 SPL http://www.goodrichfamilyassoc.org/44_Special_Articles/Brian Pearce on the 44 Special.pdf
GREAT article.
CraigC's comments are dependent on which revolver you get. a 17-4 cylinder in .45 Colt is strong enough for just about anything, likewise the new BFR 454's.
Pierce breaks it down pretty well as to what revolvers take what loads.
The .44 Special reminds me of the .308. It's pretty much perfectly efficient for what I want. If it will move a 250-260 grain bullet over 950 fps, with a number of powders, and not much wasted case space, it's pretty much perfect.
The .44 Special should be inherently more accurate as well, since you are using a fuller case of powder, which should give less velocity fluctuation, and better accuracy.
In other words:
It will with proper loads and a proper gun, take anything in the 48, with minimal recoil, in easy to carry guns. It's also efficient, and economical, if you handload.
I will say seeing a box of that garbage Remington 246 grain round nose at maybe 600 fps out of my gun at the time, makes me want to throw up.
I could not keep 5 shots on a mansized target, at 7 yards. Didn't qualify.
With hand loads, 240 grain HP's at about 1050 fps, all head shots.
That Remington 246 grain load is at the top of my all time worst factory ammunition. Slow, huge recoil, big blast and black smoke, combined with horrible accuracy, and 22 dollars a box for 20 in 1980.
If I had a place to reload, or they made 1911's in .429", I'd probably have found another .44 Special.
I don't have a .308 either. Both are on my bucket list.
CraigC's comments are dependent on which revolver you get. a 17-4 cylinder in .45 Colt is strong enough for just about anything, likewise the new BFR 454's.
Pierce breaks it down pretty well as to what revolvers take what loads.
The .44 Special reminds me of the .308. It's pretty much perfectly efficient for what I want. If it will move a 250-260 grain bullet over 950 fps, with a number of powders, and not much wasted case space, it's pretty much perfect.
The .44 Special should be inherently more accurate as well, since you are using a fuller case of powder, which should give less velocity fluctuation, and better accuracy.
In other words:
It will with proper loads and a proper gun, take anything in the 48, with minimal recoil, in easy to carry guns. It's also efficient, and economical, if you handload.
I will say seeing a box of that garbage Remington 246 grain round nose at maybe 600 fps out of my gun at the time, makes me want to throw up.
I could not keep 5 shots on a mansized target, at 7 yards. Didn't qualify.
With hand loads, 240 grain HP's at about 1050 fps, all head shots.
That Remington 246 grain load is at the top of my all time worst factory ammunition. Slow, huge recoil, big blast and black smoke, combined with horrible accuracy, and 22 dollars a box for 20 in 1980.
If I had a place to reload, or they made 1911's in .429", I'd probably have found another .44 Special.
I don't have a .308 either. Both are on my bucket list.
craigc and bcrider,
well, the scale came out accurate. against a 34 oz. check weight, it reads 34 ozs.
i'm the problem here. craigc is on the money. the om 357 flattop weighs 38 ounces. planets must have been out of phase.
the blackhawk 44 spl w/ 5.5" barrel - 44 ounces
44mag sbh w/ 7.5" barrel - 48 ounces
45lc bh w/ 4.625" barrel - 34 ounces
s&w m29 w/ 6" barrel - 46 ounces
all the above weapons are stock, except the 45lc which has a hogue monogrip.
fwiw,
murf
well, the scale came out accurate. against a 34 oz. check weight, it reads 34 ozs.
i'm the problem here. craigc is on the money. the om 357 flattop weighs 38 ounces. planets must have been out of phase.
the blackhawk 44 spl w/ 5.5" barrel - 44 ounces
44mag sbh w/ 7.5" barrel - 48 ounces
45lc bh w/ 4.625" barrel - 34 ounces
s&w m29 w/ 6" barrel - 46 ounces
all the above weapons are stock, except the 45lc which has a hogue monogrip.
fwiw,
murf
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My luck with Remington rifle and pistol ammo has been mixed.
I'm thinking that 240-300 grain bullets, moving at 900-1,000 fps should be just the ticket for hogs (NOT Hogzilla sized, mind you), with a lot less weight and recoil than my Redhawk .44 mag.
I even considered using the 208 grain DBWCs that I cast from my Lee mold. I can heat treat them and tey should make a good hole in a deer or pig at 1,000 fps.
My BH .44 spl is definitely heavier than my Charter Bulldog (about twice as heavy), which is welcome for recoil.
It's also a lot lighter than my Redhawk. Which is very welcome when hiking.
I'm thinking that 240-300 grain bullets, moving at 900-1,000 fps should be just the ticket for hogs (NOT Hogzilla sized, mind you), with a lot less weight and recoil than my Redhawk .44 mag.
I even considered using the 208 grain DBWCs that I cast from my Lee mold. I can heat treat them and tey should make a good hole in a deer or pig at 1,000 fps.
My BH .44 spl is definitely heavier than my Charter Bulldog (about twice as heavy), which is welcome for recoil.
It's also a lot lighter than my Redhawk. Which is very welcome when hiking.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
Sounds good murf, except that .45 should be more like 36oz than 34oz.
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