Ruger Blackhawk--action advice

[ExMachina]

Got a brand new Ruger Blackhawk and I just noticed that the action is slightly out of time (if i cock it real slow, the sear catches just before cylinder bolt).

Sounds like a warranty repair, right?

However, the trigger on this gun is not great either and I was already going to schedule an action job with a local gunsmith.

Question is, should I get the timing issue addressed before or after the trigger job?--I'm wondering if there is any way that one fix could screw up the other fix??

And would I be completely nuts to simply go ahead and pay the smith to fix the timing issue too, even though Ruger would do it for free?

 

[ironhead7544]

I would send it to MagNaPort for an action job. They will fix the timing too.

 

[obm]

I would check if Ruger will pay for shipping fees for warranty work. If shipping isn't free it may be a wash in terms of just having the local gunsmith fix the timing issue while he does the action job.

Also, I recall someone posting that when they sent in their Ruger for repair, Ruger swapped out a modified part to put it back to factory condition. Might want to verify if they actually do this...if that's the case you don't want to get your action job before you send it to Ruger.

-obm

 

[Red Cent]

Just to make sure. You can come to full cock before the bolt stop drops? If that is the case something is wrong. The bolt stop should drop into the cylinder groove short of the notch before you come to full cock.

Ruger will put the revolver back to stock. Any after market internals will accompany the revolver in a bag.

 

[W.E.G.]

What is this?... tantric hammer-handling where the payout is a UPS call-tag???

You're not supposed to cock it that way when using it normally.

A lot of guns that don't need to be sent anywhere for "warranty work" do the same thing.

Cock it like you mean it, and this will be a complete non-issue.

 

[1911Tuner]

While I'm in agreement that the Blackhawk should pre-time...cylinder lock up happens before the hammer reaches full cock...if it only happens when it's cocked super-slowly...it's not really an issue. At least not yet. If the hammer is cocked at normal speed, the cylinder's momentum should carry it. If it doesn't lock before the hammer reaches full cock with a reasonable cocking speed...then it definitely needs to be attended to.

 

[ExMachina]

Yes, and while I agree this is not a "dire" problem, I know that it is one that will not get better but will get worse (as the pawl/hand wears). So, it will need to be fixed sooner rather than later...

 

[triggerman770]

Ruger Black hawk

quote: "Also, I recall someone posting that when they sent in their Ruger for repair, Ruger swapped out a modified part to put it back to factory condition. Might want to verify if they actually do this...if that's the case you don't want to get your action job before you send it to Ruger"
I can assure you they do replace parts to make them "current" even if they are their own parts. I sent a 4 digit S/N Ruger standard that was made the 1st month of the 2nd year of production for a bluing. when it was returned they had rebuilt the entire gun as far as the fire control parts. I had just slicked up the factory parts a tad as 50 year of wear had an excellent trigger
but that all went away courtesy of Sturm Ruger & Co. new trigger was crap but it loooked marvelous

 

[ExMachina]

I sent a 4 digit S/N Ruger standard that was made the 1st month of the 2nd year of production for a bluing. when it was returned they had rebuilt the entire gun as far as the fire control parts.

Aaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrghhhhh!

They always say "be careful what you wish for", but stories like this confirm that we generally get screwed by stuff we never, ever wanted.

 

[1911Tuner]

Ida been hot.

The thing about single-actions....and the original 1873 SAA is the same as the various clones and even the Rugers...is that the hand continues to push the cylinder after the stop bolt locks it. That places the hand under a strain, and tends to wear it and the ratchet if the hammer is cocked with speed and force...unless the gun is modified to positively stop the hammer when the cylinder locks.

That, and the flimsy little leaf spring that powered the hand were two of the weakest points of the original Colt design. Most of the modern Italian clones have gone to a coil spring to address the one problem, but the other one requires modification by a SA revolversmith. As long as the hammer is cocked normally, it doesn't cause a problem for a long time. In CAS...it doesn't take long to knock the gun out of time.

Since yours is new...and with all the fast-action cowboy shooting so prevalent these days...I wonder if they've started purposely fitting their hands to stop turning the cylinders a little early and just let momentum carry'em. Not early enough to compromise the timing in normal operation, but just enough to prevent damage if the hammer is cocked forcefully.

Triggerman...Any thoughts on that theory?

 

[1911Tuner]

Okay. Got the dogs tended to, and bein' the curious sort...I went and dug my New Vaqueros out and thumbed the hammers back reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeal slow. Both of'em
timed a little late on half the chambers, and barely on the other three just as the hammer reached full cock. If I kept cocking the hammer on either one...the cylinder turned a tiny bit further as usual, and thus the slow timing wouldn't be an issue.

Then I broke out my 70s vintage NM .41 Blackhawk. It pre-timed the way I'm used to seeing Rugers do, with the cylinder stop locking the cylinder a bit before the hammer reached full cock.

I wonder if I've stumbled onto somethin' here.

 

[ExMachina]

While it only happens if I pull the hammer back slowly, it doesn't have to be "reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeal slow"

Imagine that you were hunting and trying to thumb back the hammer w/o making too much noise--that's how slow is slow enough to make it not lock up (sometimes)

Right now I'm leaning toward not sending it back to Ruger (although it would be a good opportunity to ask them to fix the crooked front sight too )

 

[ExMachina]

The thing about single-actions....and the original 1873 SAA is the same as the various clones and even the Rugers...is that the hand continues to push the cylinder after the stop bolt locks it.

...and when you put it like that, it seems a pretty thankless job that the poor hand has! no matter how good it is, it is always stressed and it's always going to get worse.

 

[1911Tuner]

Quote:

>Imagine that you were hunting and trying to thumb back the hammer w/o making too much noise--that's how slow is slow enough to make it not lock up (sometimes)<

Well...That puts in the "Must be repaired" category. And, yes. The hand on a single-action has some issues that must be overcome if the hammer is to be yanked with purpose. The Rugers aren't quite as stressed as the original Colts and their clones...but if you cock a properly timed Vaquero or Blackhawk, and thumb the hammer further until it positively stops...you'll doubtless notice that the cylinder also continues to roll. If the cylinder then stops and you've still got a little more movement in the hammer...the hand and ratchet are being stressed.

 

[Red Cent]

My algebra teacher told me I can read very well but I could not read well.

The boltstop in my 3-screw Blackhawks, when you cock them slow, drops just at the beginning of the lead in. At full cock, it locks up. I do have hammer stops in the 3 screws. Same thing in an old 3 screw 44 Mag SBH.

"you'll doubtless notice that the cylinder also continues to roll."

They won't continue to roll unless you continue to full cock. With a fairly fast cocking action, they will "continue".

Maybe I'm missing something here in the reading. No single action should "the sear (full cock) catches just before cylinder bolt (drops or catches the notch)".

We agree that the bolt drops anywhere from a 1/4" to an inch before full cock. Full cock continues to push the cylinder around and lock up.

If the bolt stop locks into the cylinder notch prior to coming to full cock, then I would have to fix it. Way out of time.

What was the question?

 

[1911Tuner]

Quote:

>They won't continue to roll unless you continue to full cock. With a fairly fast cocking action, they will "continue".<

That was exactly my point, RC. If the bolt stop locks the cylinder into battery, and further cocking the hammer continues to roll the cylinder...the bolt stop will only let it turn so far. If the hand is still trying to turn the cylinder after it goes as far as the stop will let it, it's being jammed into the ratchet. That's why it's important for the hammer to be solidly and positively stopped at the point that the bolt engages and locks the cylinder.

 

[ExMachina]

Much to the credit of my local gunsmith, he told me:
a. it wasn't worth tending to at the moment (cuz it's not that bad yet)
b. the solution will not be a new hand, but a new cylinder (because it only occurs on two of the six chambers)

 

[highlander 5]

Send it back to Ruger,then get the action worked on. MagNaPort did a 44 mag for me and I'm quite pleased with their work. You might want to try the poor man's tune up. Remove the grips and you'll see the trigger spring laying across a cross pin in the frame,take ONE of the legs off the pin and try the action. If it improves the trigger pull,your good to go. If not nothing is damaged just replace the spring on the pin.