Ruger New Vaquero
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1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
My grandfather was a WW1 vet. He carried a .44-40 SA Colt almost until the day he died. If he had his pants on, that Colt was there.
A coal miner, he lived and worked in a place that came to be known as "Bloody Harlan" and he was there when it earned that distinction. I've heard the stories of those dark days, from him and others. Gunfights happened. Real gunfights. Not pretend gunfights with stages and timers and ROs asking "Shooter ready?"
He could produce that revolver almost out of thin air, and he was a wicked shot with it. I remember him snap-shooting apples, and the hits were made roughly the same instant the gun came into view.
He carried a large handkerchief in his left front pocket. He'd pull it out and flap it in front of him to open it up, and when it dropped...you were looking at the Colt's muzzle.
My father tried to break him over to a 1911 since he was familiar with it and he did own one...mentioning how slow his revolver is to reload should he run it empty in a bad situation.
His reply came immediately...with a snort.
"I figger if I'm still alive when I run out, I'll have all the time in the world to reload it."
A coal miner, he lived and worked in a place that came to be known as "Bloody Harlan" and he was there when it earned that distinction. I've heard the stories of those dark days, from him and others. Gunfights happened. Real gunfights. Not pretend gunfights with stages and timers and ROs asking "Shooter ready?"
He could produce that revolver almost out of thin air, and he was a wicked shot with it. I remember him snap-shooting apples, and the hits were made roughly the same instant the gun came into view.
He carried a large handkerchief in his left front pocket. He'd pull it out and flap it in front of him to open it up, and when it dropped...you were looking at the Colt's muzzle.
My father tried to break him over to a 1911 since he was familiar with it and he did own one...mentioning how slow his revolver is to reload should he run it empty in a bad situation.
His reply came immediately...with a snort.
"I figger if I'm still alive when I run out, I'll have all the time in the world to reload it."
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
Then I suggest you stick to what you know and I will do the same. If you are familiar and proficient with your Glock, then that's what you should carry. If you haven't spent enough time with a single action revolver, then that's probably not the best choice.....for you. Personally, I wouldn't recommend a single action revolver to an IPSC shooter any more than I would a Glock to a CAS shooter.
Relying on any technology is ill advised. Technology doesn't take the place of skill. Technology doesn't win gunfights. Men do. In the grand scheme of things, the particular weapon you choose with which to defend yourself is so far down on the list of factors affecting the outcome, it hardly even bears mentioning.
More importantly, let us see how much more skilled we are in handling a single action than a Glock. I handle and shoot SA's almost daily. I haven't touched a Glock in probably 6-7yrs.
It's typical of folks who think a high capacity auto automatically gives them an advantage. It's also clear that he places far too much importance on equipment and far too less on skill with that equipment. If they even own a revolver, let alone a single action, it's typically only a novelty and not taken seriously. Obviously.
I wouldn't want to throw down on him, either.
I don't shoot like any of the competition guys.
I feel comfortable with an SA, a DA, or an auto. I feel more comfortable with a revolver.
Considering the fact that modern combat handgun doctrine dictates using both hands for hold and for malfunction clearing, I don't see where using both hands to cock and fire the SA revolver is such a handicap.
To each, his own.
Most of the time, when I carry an SA revolver, the only thing I need to protect myself from is a venomous snake, coyote, hog, or big spider.
I don't shoot like any of the competition guys.
I feel comfortable with an SA, a DA, or an auto. I feel more comfortable with a revolver.
Considering the fact that modern combat handgun doctrine dictates using both hands for hold and for malfunction clearing, I don't see where using both hands to cock and fire the SA revolver is such a handicap.
To each, his own.
Most of the time, when I carry an SA revolver, the only thing I need to protect myself from is a venomous snake, coyote, hog, or big spider.
Craig, if you feel like you are fully able to defend yourself in a high-stress self-defense situation with a SA revolver, it doesn't matter to me, at all. Whatever you want.
I, and most other self-defense EDC CCW types prefer to increase our odds with a higher capacity handgun.
I, and most other self-defense EDC CCW types prefer to increase our odds with a higher capacity handgun.
MrDig
Member
I had an uncle of a similar frame of mind, I think your Grandfather and Uncle Ted would have hit it off.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
Odds of what, missing???
Craig, I commend you for being so proficient with a single action six shot revolver that you have absolutely no reason to use something with a higher capacity. All the best to you. It is clear you just feel a need to have an argument. Sorry, not interested.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
Considering that most folks carry snubbies and pocket pistols, I don't consider capacity to be an issue at all. Even the vaunted 1911, which I also carry, only holds 7-8rds. Besides, you can't miss fast enough to win a gunfight. 
BCCL
Member
The gun itself is almost irrelevant when it comes to winning a gunfight. It is, and has always been, the person using it.
CraigC: Can you show me the factual, empirical evidence to sustain your point that "most people" who are carrying a firearm are carrying revolvers?
I'd be interested in seeing your evidence to support your assertion. The old saying goes: "He who asserts, must prove."
Put your proof forward. Thanks.
I'd be interested in seeing your evidence to support your assertion. The old saying goes: "He who asserts, must prove."
Put your proof forward. Thanks.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
I reckon that depends on whether or not you believe capacity increases your odds of winning. I don't believe it does. I would MUCH rather rely on my skill with the weapon, whatever it is, than capacity.
CraigC, you choose to miss the point.
Yes, training is everything. But...in a HIGH stress situation where you are engaged with a person trying to kill you, the fact that I have 14 rounds, and you have only six, seems to me to be a tactical advantage.
Oh, by the way, how many times have you had to pull your weapon in self defense? Just wondering if you have any actual real experience.
Yes, training is everything. But...in a HIGH stress situation where you are engaged with a person trying to kill you, the fact that I have 14 rounds, and you have only six, seems to me to be a tactical advantage.
Oh, by the way, how many times have you had to pull your weapon in self defense? Just wondering if you have any actual real experience.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
He didn't say that, and I don't get any indication that he implied it. All Craig is saying is not to sell a single-action revolver short, especially in the hands of someone who is good with it.
And...Not all defensive situations involve running gunfights.
Now, let's move on gentlemen.
Saddlebag Preacher
Member
(I posted this on another thread but I believe it applies here also.)
I am a retired LEO, now a minister, and have a Glock 22 and a Keltec PF-9 for CCW. But I also have a lot of shooting and handling time with SA's and lever actions because I am a Wild west reenactor for a group and the former Safety Officer. While we do use blanks for the shows, I do shoot with live ammo often and carry one of my SA .45's daily on the farm whether on tractor or horseback.
I recently ordered a Merkel holster for my New Vaquero .45. I can carry 6 instead of 5 in the Ruger safely. I will probably use it for yhe farm, and then if I need to run to town for something and come back, I can just throw a shirt or jacket over it without changing out guns.
For extended town trips though, I'll still use one of my auto's according to how I'm dressed. But I've also carried a Uberti Sheriff;s model birdshead in my back pocket so many times the blueing is wearing off.
There's pros and cons to both, but any one is better than nothing when that "hinky" feeling say's something ain't right.
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I am a retired LEO, now a minister, and have a Glock 22 and a Keltec PF-9 for CCW. But I also have a lot of shooting and handling time with SA's and lever actions because I am a Wild west reenactor for a group and the former Safety Officer. While we do use blanks for the shows, I do shoot with live ammo often and carry one of my SA .45's daily on the farm whether on tractor or horseback.
I recently ordered a Merkel holster for my New Vaquero .45. I can carry 6 instead of 5 in the Ruger safely. I will probably use it for yhe farm, and then if I need to run to town for something and come back, I can just throw a shirt or jacket over it without changing out guns.
For extended town trips though, I'll still use one of my auto's according to how I'm dressed. But I've also carried a Uberti Sheriff;s model birdshead in my back pocket so many times the blueing is wearing off.
There's pros and cons to both, but any one is better than nothing when that "hinky" feeling say's something ain't right.
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wheelyfun66
Member
That is a good point.Considering that most folks carry snubbies and pocket pistols, I don't consider capacity to be an issue at all. Even the vaunted 1911, which I also carry, only holds 7-8rds. Besides, you can't miss fast enough to win a gunfight.
I know many people who carry a pocket 380 auto....
I'll put my survival skills with a single action revolver up against someone with a pocket 380 any day of the week!
As I said earlier, I realize that a Single Action Army is not the BEST choice in a CCW weapon...but it is better than many other options (pocket pistols in laughable calibers come to mind)
wheelyfun66
Member
I hear ya!
It is difficult to argue the merits or advantages of a single action for ccw purposes....
Can't think of a single ADVANTAGE really....?
I have just been over-exposed to the modern "combat" mindset (served in combat in Iraq in 2005, and just now getting away from "tactical" gear and weapons), and am attempting to keep things simple in my life.
For me, that means less concealed carry. When I do carry (outside of house at night, woods, camping, canoeing, car trips), I feel that the single action will serve in that role.
I live in a very low-crime state, and am also thinking about taking a teaching job in Europe next year. Europe=no guns.....so trying to get in a mindset that guns need not be in my life 24/7.
That is a very long-winded and personal response to why I feel that a single action will serve as my defensive firearm.
Yes, I will train as hard or harder than I ever have....which is frequent and serious.
by the way, your Glock 26 is an excellent choice for a defensive weapon. I just sold mine to pay for my Ruger Vaquero!
You should probably train a lot and often, regardless of your EDC gun.
I've had to pull mine 3 times. First time was a Charter .44, next was a Ruger Speed Six .357, the last was a Russian Makarov. All three times, I was very thankful that I wasn't unarmed. (making lemons into lemonade. Needing to draw your SD gun is a sure sign that you're having a VERY BAD day)
I would have preferred to have had the .44 or .357, the last time, but the Mak did the job without any shots being fired (so did the .357 and .44).
I've had to pull mine 3 times. First time was a Charter .44, next was a Ruger Speed Six .357, the last was a Russian Makarov. All three times, I was very thankful that I wasn't unarmed. (making lemons into lemonade. Needing to draw your SD gun is a sure sign that you're having a VERY BAD day)
I would have preferred to have had the .44 or .357, the last time, but the Mak did the job without any shots being fired (so did the .357 and .44).
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CraigC
Sixgun Nut
The advantage does not lie in the platform but the individual's skill with it. Think about it like this, would someone like a hardcore CAS shooter really be better armed with a Glock that he shoots maybe 5-10% as much as his trusty single actions???
Our main issue here is probably one of perspective. I feel that I am fairly well acquainted with the 1911. Even though I probably shoot the platform much more often than the average shooter. This amounts to at least several thousand rounds through a .22LR conversion per year and at least a couple cases of .45ACP per year. I consider my skill with the 1911 to only be "adequate". By contrast, I do A LOT more shooting with single action revolvers and own ten of them to each 1911. I "use" them regularly. My 1911 shooting encompasses probably 10% of my total shooting. I have owned and shot very well with Glocks in the past but currently the only combat tupperware I own is a Springfield XD .45 as my truck gun. I shoot it very little, just enough to stay familiar. By some of the logic presented here, I would be better off with the XD that I am only somewhat familiar with than I would either the 1911 I am competent with or the single action revolver that I am intimately familiar and proficient with.....strictly due to its capacity. Sorry but I feel this is very, very wrong-headed thinking.
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