Rules about capping cylinders ???

[tightgroups]

Mike,

I disagree, it wasn't considered a stunt during the War of Succession.

You're right, most soldiers carried anywhere from two to four, to even more, revolvers at a time, so they didn't have to fumble around reloading and capping in the heat of battle...but...The Remington was designed to take care of these problems.

Instead of carrying three or more revolvers you could carry one or two '58 Armies with a few extra cylinders, loaded and capped and you had a huge advantage over anyone carrying a Colt revolver, including better sights and better accuracy. No Kentucky windage was needed with a Remington Army.

The 1860 Army may have been ubiquitous during the war but the gun to have was the Remington '58 Army.

Sharps59,

Wow! You have to call a range officer over to check your gun before firing...every time! Oh, The Horror, The Horror! That would drive me completely insane. Why anyone would want to shoot at a range were they had to hold your hand is beyond me.

 

[sharps59]

tightgroup
you miss read it. when you are done shooting the event (not each shot not each cyliner )or time has expired. and ready to leave the line. it must be checked. NSSA rules do not allow loaded arms anywere but at the line.

 

[tightgroups]

Ahh,

Sorry! I'm glad you don't have to go through that during regular range time. That makes sense, you need a safe environment during competitions, more so then when just at the range. Lot's of people come and watch those events, don't they? I bet it is pretty fun to compete.

 

[Mike OTDP]

Loads...and we have quite a good safety record.

 

[sharps59]

loads of fun

Yes the NSSA is lots of fun esp. the team events.
with a pistol range w/ 56 positions w/ room for 4 men per position, and a rifle range w/ 62 positions w/ room for 8 men per position .

 

[Mike OTDP]

I seem to recollect that we have extended the line at Fort Shenandoah to 68 positions. Wound up shooting on position 68 once.

 

[sharps59]

MIKE
i thought there were 68 also but i checking the sechudle for the 117th national for # for pistol. l looked at the musket to see were our team was at the bottom it only listed team to position 62. unless i did not scrole down far enough or they are not using them.

 

[Omnivore]

For you ROs out there, as far as loading six and lowering the hammer into a safety notch on the cylinder:

That's only remotely worth doing if you're putting the loaded gun down or holstering it. Otherwise, it's safer to leave it on half cock, then bring it to full cock and fire, rather than bring it to full cock, lower the hammer on a live chamber, then partial cock to move the cylinder one half chamber.

To use the "safety" notch or pin, you must first lower the hammer all the way down on a live round. Better to load six, where you're already at half cock, bring the gun up to shoot, then go to full cock.

 

[tightgroups]

Oops! Sorry.

 

[firescout]

From Omnivore: For you ROs out there, as far as loading six and lowering the hammer into a safety notch on the cylinder:

That's only remotely worth doing if you're putting the loaded gun down or holstering it. Otherwise, it's safer to leave it on half cock, then bring it to full cock and fire, rather than bring it to full cock, lower the hammer on a live chamber, then partial cock to move the cylinder one half chamber.

To use the "safety" notch or pin, you must first lower the hammer all the way down on a live round. Better to load six, where you're already at half cock, bring the gun up to shoot, then go to full cock.



This is not true! If the hammer is on half-cock, for loading: after capping all 6 cylinders, one only needs to rotate the cylinder by hand to a safety notch, pull back slightly on the hammer, then pull the trigger (while holding back on the hammer) and lower the hammer into the notch. At no time does the hammer need to be fully-cocked over a capped/loaded chamber. I do this with my Colt 1851 Navy and Ruger Old Army revolvers.

Dry practice with a C&B revolver can greatly improve safety on the range and in the field.

 

[Oyeboten]

Colt Dragoons...there's a between-every-Cylinder-Bore spot, with a tiny 'pin' sticking out also, for the Hammer to engauge and Rest.


No issues if one wishes to have all 'Six' Chambers Loaded and Capped and be Carrying.

 

[StrawHat]

tightgroups
I disagree, it wasn't considered a stunt during the War of Succession.

Tightgroups, More than a few of us have spent quite a bit of time trying to find documented cases of this happening. Can you provide one? I have found no mention in the diaries of soldiers and frontiersmen or their families. Nor in contemporary newpapers. No, I haven't read them all but I am only looking for one example.

Thanks.

 

[missuramoss]

I guess I'm blessed in the fact that I dont shoot at public ranges....just for that very fact of people infringing on other people....We have a range set up at my place of employment, we can camp out there, after all shooting is done...we can kick back with a few cold ones and talk about our time shooting....we can do whatever we want, as the boss says...as long as its legal and doesnt tear up the property...and...we ALLWAYS know where our muzzles are pointing....fully charged or completely empty...I dont think I'd ever want to go to a public range now.....

 

[Carl N. Brown]

For years, I shot my .36 1851 Colt replica and .44 1858 Remington replica in black powder matches and always preloaded the cylinders at home before going to the matches (at that time we had three events: 6 shots slow fire bullseye, 6 shot timed fire bullseye, and three attempts at a turning target (two shots in two seconds). Most other shooters used cartridge revolvers. Needless I suppose to say, I loaded all six chambers. The nipple areas on the cylinders of my cap'n'ball revolvers are recessed to where you cant drop them and have a flat floor contact the caps. (I just pulled them out of the closet to double check.) Since I did not insert the cylinders until I and the gun were facing down range, the range master never made a safety call.

I have a high tolerance for BS, but see no point in "load only five" when actively shooting at a range. The hammer on empty chamber is for field carry, not range safety. My son hates range "safety nazis" and prefers to shoot at my uncle's place in the mountains.

 

[[email protected]]

I have shot at Friendship for 17 years. Just happen to have a rule book. Here
is what the rule says about capping the revolver.

 

[Fingers McGee]

Third...Jim Watson I've only been to one SASS shoot so far but what you mentioned confirms what I've seen. Do any "Frontiersman" cap&ball shooters ever do a "Pale Rider" style cylinder swap reload on their Remmies at SASS events ? I've discovered Cabela's sells a twin belt pouch sold for storing extra Ruger 10/22 clips which fits spare Remington cap&ball cylinders perfectly. It's only about twenty bucks.

Slim,

Shooting one gun and doing a 'Pale Rider' swap on the clock is legal at SASS competitions; however, you cannot carry a capped spare cylinder. You must cap after the cylinder has been exchanged. I've done it on occasion with C&B and cartridge conversion '58s. You won't win any championships that way; but you'll get plenty of style points.

 

[firescout]

I have shot at Friendship for 17 years. Just happen to have a rule book. Here
is what the rule says about capping the revolver.

That rule doesn't make sense; it contradicts itself: if your percussion revolver has the safety notches between cylinders, then you could load all six and still have the required *safe position with the hammer down available*.

 

[[email protected]]

Then the thing to do is go there and tell them their rules make no sense. I
don't think you will get to far. I remember when I was 16 and got my first car. Nobody was going to tell me how to drive it, or how fast to drive it. Well
I found out different. If your going to shoot on their range, you are going to
have to play by their rules. If you think thats bad, In some of the rifle matches, they tell you what kind of clothes to wear. No I'm not talking about
the primative side where you have to wear peroid dress. I guess if you go somewhere to shoot and you don't like their rules, you can try to change them to suit yourself, or quit going. We all have that choice.

 

[madcratebuilder]

That rule doesn't make sense; it contradicts itself: if your percussion revolver has the safety notches between cylinders, then you could load all six and still have the required *safe position with the hammer down available*.

I agree, the rule contradicts itself, poorly written.
If you had a five chambered pocket revolver with a safety pin or safety notch you could load all five according to that rule.

About the only time I use a range is for 100yd plus rifle practice and my local indoor in the winter for rim fire and small revolver.

 

[BCRider]

Well, for CAS events it doesn't matter if I have a safe notch on my '58's or not. I'm still only allowed to load 5 since that's what the cartridge guys are allowed to load. Also I'm only allowed to cap at the safety area and then show the RO handling the safe area that I'm on the empty spot before holstering. Again this is how the cartridge guys do it and to be even and fair this is how they expect the C&B guys to do it.

Also at our ranges that I've been to no gun can be carried loaded other than in the CAS events where you load your revovlers in their holsters on the empty chamber and carry the loaded lever gun action open to the line. The shotgun is not loaded and action is open. This movement from the safety area to the line is the only time we're able to carry loaded arms around when they are not pointed directly downrange.

However I can powder and ball the guns and carry them around that way with no caps. The do not consider a C&B as being loaded until the caps are placed. And in line with the rule that the cylinder and gun must be directed at the safe wall I can't very well cap it unless the cylinder is already in the gun.

I'll find out more about this as I shoot more CAS but I suspect this is pretty typical for CAS event handling. The only time they have ammo in them is during the stage being shot.

The other matches I've shot in were IPSC and Speed Steel. In both cases all guns are required to be unloaded and show clear before re-holstering.

 

[Smokin_Gun]

+1 on "BuzzKills" :O)

 

[madcratebuilder]

Well, for CAS events it doesn't matter if I have a safe notch on my '58's or not. I'm still only allowed to load 5 since that's what the cartridge guys are allowed to load

I understand that if your competing against cartridge guns. They should not call it a safety rule.

 

[mykeal]

Read the rule again. It does not say loading no more than 5 is a safety rule. It simply says loading more than 5 is prohibited. No reason for the requirement is given; BCRider provides the rationale for the rule. Now, regarding SAFETY, the rule goes on to say that a safe position with the hammer down (either an unloaded chamber OR a safe postion between chambers) must be available.

I now see no contradiction in the language, as long as one doesn't jump to the erroneous conclusion that the reason for prohibiting more than 5 loaded chambers is only for safety. I have to admit that I made that assumption and didn't understand the language at first - thanks to BCRider for clearing it up.

 

[Gaucho Gringo]

I load my cylinders and cap them with my cylinder loader. I always have the gun pointed downrange when putting the cylinder in the gun. Now, for all of you who get upset over this I have a question for you- Why is this any different than loading an R&D conversion cylinder with cartridges and putting it in the gun? Think about it, you have the firing pins at about or higher than the the caps on the nipples of a percussion cylinder. If you drop it and firing pins hit an object they are going to strike the primer and have basically the same scenario. Granted the cover plate may come off but then again it may not and it creates the situation that you are complaining about. I will admit there is a possibility of something happening but the is also a chance of a serious auto accident, snake bite, lightning strike and a host of other things. I was taught to shoot starting at age 7 by my dad who was a a Marine Corps Sargent and Sharpshooter and he drilled into me safety first. Every since I was a teenager and allowed to go shooting with other people than my dad, mainly friends of mine, there were certain people I would not go shooting with because I thought they were unsafe. I wasn't about to put myself in an unsafe shooting situation and I still go by this creed. I guess some of it boils down to personal perception.

 

[BCRider]

Something to consider. As I see it low "muzzle" velocity or not a capped C&B cylinder is a loaded gun with very short barrels that has the potential to fire if it is dropped or otherwise struck sharply against something that impacts a cap strongly enough to cause it to fire. As such once capped it should be handled like a loaded gun. If the rules of the range prohibit loaded guns other than at the line then the cylinders should not be capped until at the line. Or if there are other rules about handling loaded guns then capped cylinders should comply with those rules.

By the way, I've seen the claim that a ball out of a cylinder would be doing something like 200 fps. But is this a known and tested value? A capped cylinder isn't like tossing a cartridge into a fire. In that case the bullet weighs more than the casing so the casing is the faster of the two. In fact Mythbusters did a bullet in an oven and bullets in a fire spot. They found that the casing was more damaging than the bullet itself. In fact it put a hole in the metal wall of the oven they baked the bullets in.

But I digress...... The point is that a cylinder is MUCH heavier than a brass casing. As such the round ball or conical is going to shoot out of a cylinder with a significant speed. I can't believe that it'll only be 200 fps. And even if it was I feel that a hard bullet hitting at that speed would cause a broken skin wound even if it's not a killing shot. But one heading for an eye would likely break any sort of safety glasses and still greatly damage or ruin an eye.