Have a chance to pick up a Baikal (not sure of the spelling) over & under 12 guage in mint condition (less than a year old). Looks to be very well made. Nice Walnut stock. Also has magnetic fiber optic sights. Been looking for a clay shooting shotgun. $300 price tag. I believe the owner paid $375. Comes with 3 choke tubes & life time warranty. I did find one article on a slightly different model that had good reviews. Anyone have any experience with this shotgun? Would it be a good buy at $300? Thanks for any feedback. Doug
Russian Baikal Over & Under
- Thread starter Doug S
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P95Carry
Moderator Emeritus
Doug ... I have one ...... which I bought last year ... having regretably decided I had to part with my beloved Citori Hunter. Anyways . that price is good .. I paid over $400 for mine NIB.
Initially it was stiff as heck .... needed closing with ''gusto''! It is now breaking in and I am getting used to it. I have to shoot steel sometimes so . invested in some Colonial arms knurled chokes for both lead and steel.
Overall I think it's a great value gun ... wood certainly exceptionally good tho checkering needs slight rub down because cut rather sharp (by machine I fancy).
I did add a recoil pad to mine ..... mostly to gain length and also because it aids grip on clothing .. minor point but helps me. I think you'll like it and would doubt you'd be disappointed .. they are IMO good value.
Initially it was stiff as heck .... needed closing with ''gusto''! It is now breaking in and I am getting used to it. I have to shoot steel sometimes so . invested in some Colonial arms knurled chokes for both lead and steel.
Overall I think it's a great value gun ... wood certainly exceptionally good tho checkering needs slight rub down because cut rather sharp (by machine I fancy).
I did add a recoil pad to mine ..... mostly to gain length and also because it aids grip on clothing .. minor point but helps me. I think you'll like it and would doubt you'd be disappointed .. they are IMO good value.
anapex
Member
After a round or two of trap mine loosened up pretty good. For 300 you should be getting a pretty good gun. They go for about 450-500 here in MD.
P95Carry
Moderator Emeritus
Steve .. it is indeed pretty nice wood .. nice figuring ..... however slight admission .. the camera is set up to increase color saturation a bit and so makes wood colors look a bit ''warmer'' .. adds just a little red and yellow I'd say - compared with the actual, still fairly warm, brown of the actual stock.
Still ... for a cheaper shottie ... it is very acceptable. And hey ... photographs these days ... they can lie a bit - it's called ''artistic licence''!
Still ... for a cheaper shottie ... it is very acceptable. And hey ... photographs these days ... they can lie a bit - it's called ''artistic licence''!
RepublicanMan
member
Baikal is making the new Stevens Uplander 411 side by side that was reviewed in American Rifleman....it got a great writeup as an inexpensive shotgun in that category. The workmanship was rated as excellent.
Josey
member
I would not let go of mine. It is a great shotgun bargain. Mine is still tight though.
Thanks for all the feedback. I decided to buy the rifle. Not sure when I'll get it to the range. I may go to a men's retreat with my church in the fall & one of the activities is skeet shooting. I didn't want to spend a lot of money on a skeet gun, but I also didn't want use my Mossberg Persuader for this activity . The Baikal seems to fit my needs nicely. I may use it for a little hunting also. The stock is very nice in my opinion. One of these days when I get a digital camera I'll post a pic. Doug
. The Baikal seems to fit my needs nicely. I may use it for a little hunting also. The stock is very nice in my opinion. One of these days when I get a digital camera I'll post a pic. DougTropical Z
Member
Baikals are stiff when new but built like tanks!
anapex
Member
P95: Did you port the barrels on yours? Almost kind of looks like it from the picture.
P95Carry
Moderator Emeritus
That is how it came!! Didn't occur to me to wonder whether it was standard or not . I assumed it was.
Come back in not too long and I'll add a pic for you ...... you can also see more clearly the Colonial Arms knurled chokes I have in there right now ... for steel shot.
Here we go' just a quickie ... the sight incidentally is a turkey ''Tru-Glo''.....
TrapperReady
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Chris - Nice close-up of the porting...
Dave - Now THAT'S what I'm talking about. You get that 870 barrel, a 1/8" carbide-tipped bit and a steady hand... man would that be something! If I believe only half of some of the ads in "Sporting Clays", those ports would feed the poor and cure cancer.
I know, I know... time for the Hoppes. Good thing I like that stuff.
Dave - Now THAT'S what I'm talking about. You get that 870 barrel, a 1/8" carbide-tipped bit and a steady hand... man would that be something!
If I believe only half of some of the ads in "Sporting Clays", those ports would feed the poor and cure cancer. I know, I know... time for the Hoppes. Good thing I like that stuff.
Dave McCracken
Moderator In Memoriam
TR, tempt me not....
A note on these and other inexpensive doubles....
One reason good doubles are so expensive is barrel convergence. It takes good machinery and workmanship to make a shotgun overlay the pattern from one barrel over the other at a given distance.
IOW, some of these probably shoot to different Zip Codes. Certainly not all of them, but enough.
All new shotguns should be patterned immediately, With these, it's even more crucial to find out if the barrels shoot to the same point. If not, return to dealer ASAP.
A note on these and other inexpensive doubles....
One reason good doubles are so expensive is barrel convergence. It takes good machinery and workmanship to make a shotgun overlay the pattern from one barrel over the other at a given distance.
IOW, some of these probably shoot to different Zip Codes. Certainly not all of them, but enough.
All new shotguns should be patterned immediately, With these, it's even more crucial to find out if the barrels shoot to the same point. If not, return to dealer ASAP.
Grayrock
Member
I personally know about a dozen people that use the Baikal, including myself. I will not part with mine. They all are very happy and no one has reported any problems with barrel convergence. I feel this one runs contrary to Mr. McCracken's opinion on cheap doubles. There are other brands available that are poorly made and cheap, but I would not put the Baikal in that category.
Baikal
I'm not a big shotgun user . . . but this I know. Baikal makes very good guns. They are one of the best Russian manufacturers, with good equipment and designers. Finish may be lacking a bit, as the russians have never really cared if their guns looked pretty, but function will be there. It was only in the last 10 years that the former East Block countries started using German target guns, before that Baikal made some great small bore target guns.
They are cheap for a couple of reasons . . .
- The USSR paid for all the machines and factorys.
- Low labor rates and minimal pension liability.
- Not having to have a big product liability war chest.
- Cost of materials (Steel and Aluminum) is cheaper in Russia.
You can get a bad product from any manufacturer (I know a great Honda fiasco), but that would be a screw-up, not a sign of inferior design or process.
JPM
I'm not a big shotgun user . . . but this I know. Baikal makes very good guns. They are one of the best Russian manufacturers, with good equipment and designers. Finish may be lacking a bit, as the russians have never really cared if their guns looked pretty, but function will be there. It was only in the last 10 years that the former East Block countries started using German target guns, before that Baikal made some great small bore target guns.
They are cheap for a couple of reasons . . .
- The USSR paid for all the machines and factorys.
- Low labor rates and minimal pension liability.
- Not having to have a big product liability war chest.
- Cost of materials (Steel and Aluminum) is cheaper in Russia.
You can get a bad product from any manufacturer (I know a great Honda fiasco), but that would be a screw-up, not a sign of inferior design or process.
JPM
Dave McCracken
Moderator In Memoriam
Grayrock, I know of one Baikal with convergence probs. Dealer replaced it w/o a murmur, the new one shot well.
I've nothing at all against cheap shotguns, it's BAD shotguns that doth rouse my Ire. The input I'm getting about the Baikals is they're serviceable and economical.
I've reservations about their longevity, but that would only apply if used as a gamer gun. As a field gun, they should last long enough to be heirlooms.
I've nothing at all against cheap shotguns, it's BAD shotguns that doth rouse my Ire. The input I'm getting about the Baikals is they're serviceable and economical.
I've reservations about their longevity, but that would only apply if used as a gamer gun. As a field gun, they should last long enough to be heirlooms.
P95Carry
Moderator Emeritus
Dave's mention re longevity is perhaps my big uncertainty ... guess this one of mine so far has only had about 700 or so rounds thru it . which has lossened it up nicely. Guess we will see.
BTW ..... Does everyone know ... cos I didn't until someone at the range told me ..... push the trigger forward and it is a select fire!!!
My Citori had the select fire safety and I was missing that .. but I now know, if I push trigger forward (feel a slight click) then top will go first instead.
BTW ..... Does everyone know ... cos I didn't until someone at the range told me ..... push the trigger forward and it is a select fire!!!
My Citori had the select fire safety and I was missing that .. but I now know, if I push trigger forward (feel a slight click) then top will go first instead.
Dave McCracken
Moderator In Memoriam
Chris, here's a scenario.
Option A. Buy a Citori for $1500, shoot it 40,000 times, rebuild it, shoot it another 40K, retire it.
Option B, Buy a Baikal for $300 that you hit just as well with, shoot it 30,000 times, spend another $300 to replace it, repeat indefinitely.
Of course it's not quite this simple in real life. Good triggers are found on upscale shotguns more than inexpensive ones. Or, they're easier to improve.
And fit is both subtle and complicated. If the dimensions and balance on the Baikal are right, you'll shoot better than with a more expensive shotgun that's not quite right.
Option A. Buy a Citori for $1500, shoot it 40,000 times, rebuild it, shoot it another 40K, retire it.
Option B, Buy a Baikal for $300 that you hit just as well with, shoot it 30,000 times, spend another $300 to replace it, repeat indefinitely.
Of course it's not quite this simple in real life. Good triggers are found on upscale shotguns more than inexpensive ones. Or, they're easier to improve.
And fit is both subtle and complicated. If the dimensions and balance on the Baikal are right, you'll shoot better than with a more expensive shotgun that's not quite right.
The concern might be how loose the gun would be after one hundred rounds of trap. I am wary of new guns that are stiff to at first and wear in quickly because they can just as easily wear out quickly.
Baikal's are more common in Canada as are most of Eastern Block firearms because we didn't have the same restrictions during the Communist era. They don't enjoy a good reputation for longevity.
Paul
anapex
Member
Chris: They list the barrel select function in the manual, I know I know. Who reads those!?!
Dave: Give me some "gentle" prodding and get me out to PGC every weekend and we can test out the longevity of my Baikal. And hey if it breaks that's just one more reason for me to buy another shotgun!
Dave: Give me some "gentle" prodding and get me out to PGC every weekend and we can test out the longevity of my Baikal. And hey if it breaks that's just one more reason for me to buy another shotgun!
P95Carry
Moderator Emeritus
Oh well, perhaps the comment will help other lazy sob's too!!
P95Carry
Moderator Emeritus
P95Carry, thanks for the link. I'm going to check it out now. As to my earlier post concerning the warranty, I was mistaken. The person I purchased my shotgun from stated that the supplier has provided a lifetime warranty, not the manufacturer.
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