Russian M91/30 sniper rifle

[Flyboy73]

Just got my Rguns flyer and they are selling orginal WWII MN91/30 sniper rifles with PU scopes.

http://www.rguns.net/016_13.html

In the website they claim these are the real deal not fakes.

I bought one the repo sniper a year or so ago. But whats the chances these are some of them.

Wonder where they got them from.

Anyone have any thoughts on them or actually get one? I would intrested if this was a real sniper.

Brion

 

[U.S.SFC_RET]

I don't know man take a close look at the wood where it's cut for the scope.

 

[akolleth]

Well it is entirely possible they have a small lot of them. The price is about on average for a real one (+/- $900 ) Problem is there is no way to tell except to see them in person.

The giveaways will be the wood stock (Inletted recently?) the scope itself (serial number, and manufacture) and the scope mount. Another giveaway to if it is a converted ex-sniper is inside the receiver, the ex snipers had their mounting holes plugged up. You can remove the plugs, but its obvious if they have been removed with some evidence of recent wear around the holes.

I guess the real question is how trustworthy are these guys? I personally have never dealt with them, so can't give you an answer there.

 

[Ash]

They are one of the major Mosin importers (alas, their BillBoard stamp is worse than Century's). Whether you can trust them will depend on if they supply better photography. But if you want a real Izhevsk PU, a real-deal with everything correct and legitimate, I've got three I'm getting ready to sell if you want to send me a line.

Ash

 

[armoredman]

Don't tease, Ash. I may have to go watch Enemy At the Gates again...

 

[Threejs]

I have it on good authority (Vic on gunboards) that the $800 snipers at R-Guns are legit, and are not reproductions. If I had $800 to throw at one, I would already have had it.

Vic Thomas is one of the foremost authorities on Mosins that I know besides Brent Snodgrass, so I trust his word in this.

 

[grimjaw]

They've had them for a few weeks now, gunboards.com was a-buzz with the news awhile back. Pretty sure some of the nicest examples have already been snatched up. Wish I had the cash for one, but don't know that it will shoot any better than the repro I already have.

jm

 

[brockj]

grimjaw is correct, if you are considering it, go to gunboards.com check out the sniper rifle forum, there has been much discussion as well as many pictures from people that have purchased them.

My money is going towards a garand otherwise I probably would have tried to scrape the pennies together to get one.

 

[silverlance]

once again, my garand money gets spent elsewhere.
fine by me since i'm not a big fan of the garand anyway.

I have two m1 carbines, I'm happy with my USGI guns.

 

[Gord]

Retarded question, maybe:

Are these $800 worth of Collectability, or $800 worth of Gun?

For the price of nine or ten normal Mosins I'd be expecting a heck of a shooter. Then again, I'm a User and not a Collector, so...

 

[Threejs]

Yes.

 

[Cosmoline]

Retarded question, maybe:

Are these $800 worth of Collectability, or $800 worth of Gun?

Not a stupid question at all. They're $400 worth of rifle and $400 worth of Jude Law in "Enemy at the Gates." You can see the impact Sillywood fame can have on firearms. I wouldn't call them overpriced compared with other original 91/30 snipers, but here are the facts:

--The Soviets made a LOT of 91/30 PU snipers during the war, and many survived.
--It's often difficult to tell fakes from the real thing, esp. given the way the Soviets themselves messed with their stock of rifles.
--There's nothing all that rare about 91/30 PU snipers. They are probably the most common of all wartime scoped sniper rifles.
--The PU scope, while sturdy and OK for its day is seriously outdated now.
--There are dozens of Finnish subtypes, not to mention East European Mosins, which are numerically much more rare and hard to find than the 91/30 snipers, but Jude Law never carried one in a movie.

My advice would be to skip these for now and spend your money buying Finns. As many as you can find. I say that whether you're collecting or shooting. Browse through the production figures in Lapin and it's a real eye-opener. There were more Mosins churned out of Soviet factories in a few months than Finland put together in as many years.

 

[AtticusThraxx]

I can't believe $800.00. That just blows my mind. This old bugger remembers PA Gunshow in the 80's where you could get them for $69.99 each! If you bought five or more they we're $59.99! Boy if I had bought a couple of crates of those and sat on them.........

 

[Ash]

In the 1980's they were Century fakes built on Finnish-captured Mosins.

Ash

 

[6mmintl]

91/30 snipers

Russian made up close to 100,000 snipers since 1936, are they worrth it? emotionally if you are addicted to the "Enemy at the gates" movie and 100 yard shooting and have money to spend then buy one. will it appreciate? I dont think it will as much as many other Milsurps.

If you want to relive the total sniper experience then buy a Big 5 $89.00 special with a very good plus bore, buy a repro PU scope and a MACHINED STEEL mount (not cast steel or aluminum) and have it installed, do a trigger job, handload, and shoot it at distances it was designed for (100-700 meters) out in the field, or compete in centerfire rifle silouette.

I have seen three fogged/hazy original scopes and the modern repro scope optics are much better.

Evryone is buying ex-snipers and rebuilding/restoring them and the market is flooded with mixed part so called "ORIGINAL SNIPERS" for sale.

My Repro scope and $89.00 rifle is bedded and the trigger reworked, with 46 grains of Varget and a 174 Sierra matchking in a PRVI case it will shoot 1.75 MOA all day long, with Bulgarian 1950's 180grain HB it will shoot 2 MOA

It you want to shoot one, build one, if you want to collect one know what to look for and buy a known correct original specimen.

 

[AtticusThraxx]

ASH, It was 20+ years ago and I can't swear to it, but I'm pretty sure they we're original Rusky's come outta Florida from SAAMCO. I was in my 20's so I was there snatching up all the FN49'S, MAK-90's, M-1 Carbines I could pay for or borrow money for. Bolt action stuff was ok, but an FN49 is sexier. Ahhh to be a kid again.

 

[silverlance]

I bought a repro 91/30 hex receiver sniper model and I'm pretty happy with it. sure its not original but it feels just fine watching EAG.

I am 100% behind cosmoline on teh finns. oh wait... no.. dont buy them! they are worthlessa nd cant hit crap. the wood is ugly and nothing matches except bolt and receiver, who wants that junk at the whopping price of $300.

 

[Ash]

The early sniper imports were all built up by Century. Before the Sarco sales in the later 1990's, the rule of thumb was that ALL snipers were fakes. Then came the Sarco/Century imports, which put on the market a smallish quanitity of real snipers. Then came the IO/Century imports of the fakes, assumed at first to be real but proven fairly quickly to be otherwise.

As to are they worth it, the Soviets did make a fairly large number of them, but a tremendous number were lost to attrition and a tremendous number were converted back to infantry weapons. Only a small percentage survived the war and conversion back to standard rifles.

In any case, the total number of Mosin snipers produced are smaller than the SA production of Garands in one year. Also, the total number of legitimate 91/30 snipers in the US is very, very small. Scarcity in supply is what rules the roost, not total numbers produced.

As these are not coming out of Russia, but the Ukraine (or other east block nations), the total number available is still very small.

As to the rebuilds, they are very easy to spot. The freshly cut-down stock, the non-original scope mount bases, the freshly drilled-out holes, the newly-turned down bolts, the non-matching scope mounts, the newer importation marks, no problem at all, in some ways it is easier to spot restorations than fakes. In any case, the fakes do not affect the value of the real deals.

Ash

 

[Cosmoline]

Scarcity in supply is what rules the roost, not total numbers produced.

Well, supply AND demand, which is also why the mentioned Garands are worth so much more money than many other war rifles that are far more rare. Demand in this context is a weird thing, and consists of many overlapping markets. Though you'd expect people to go after rare rifles, the most expensive ones are not the rarest. Fame and conventional wisdom, however misplaced, has a great deal to do with it.

 

[NOOk]

I say save your money for ammo and build a clone from an original sniper 91/30 that was re-arsenaled back into plain form. I have seen 2-3 of these in gun shows the past 5 years. They were in the piles with the other 91/30s sporting the tell-tale plugged mount holes and in my case: a mount cut stock. There are other ways documented ad nauseum on related gun boards on how to tell if yours is an original sniper.

I bought a repro mount and quite likely an original scope, but I call it a PU clone regardless of how it was pieced together. I say make your own clone or make a regular 91/30 into a clone, and spend the extra money saved on ammo! You still get the cool looking rifle with plenty of EATG factor.