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Rust.

Discussion in 'Non-Firearm Weapons' started by Brian Williams, Dec 13, 2012.

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  1. Brian Williams

    Brian Williams Moderator Emeritus

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    Over here in Cambodia it is very humid and the edges of my knifes rust in a short time, I forgot a good wax like Renaissance and need to find something like that to coat my stored knives. I can sharpen them and in a few weeks the humidity here has take the edge off.
    About the only wax here is some car wax. Are there any ingredients that I should avoid.
     
  2. lobo9er

    lobo9er Member

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    vegetable oil of some sort? I use vegetable oil on a few of my knives and a small hatchet I use in the kitchen. wash them like normal and store them with a light coat of what ever type of vegetable oil I have in the cupboard. But I'm not in cambodia so...
     
  3. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    Carnuba wax.
    I think they make it out of palm trees??

    Or Bees wax. They surely got bee's wax?

    Or clear / neutral color Kiwi paste show polish. Or the Cambodian equivalent?

    Or a candle.
    Just use the knife and make some slices on a candle to fill the microscopic edge scratches with paraffin wax.

    rc
     
  4. CWL

    CWL Member

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    Go ahead and use car wax. I have before.

    It will contain some microabrasives designed to remove oxidation from car paint. I think that'd help your knives, not harm them.
     
  5. Sky

    Sky Member

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    Brian just across the boarder in Thailand and Laos they sell knife oil that seems to work very well. If you can't find some at the local market in Cambodia that sells knives then good luck. I carried a knife for 4 years in that part of the world but I swear I never had a problem with rust. I did have a scabbard and occasionally wiped the blade (s) down with an oily rag but do not remember a problem? Just about any car paste wax has worked for many but has to be applied after sharpening and if the blade is used it tends to come right off..
     
  6. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    Yep, carnauba.

    Got any dental floss? Spool it out and rub it on half the edge of a freshly sharpened rust free blade and let us know if the "flossed" part rusts slower.

    It is also in floor and car waxes. Look for paste wax with high carbaube/Brazil/palm wax content.

    Or just have the fam send some Ren Wax from the states.
     
  7. JohnKSa

    JohnKSa Member

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    I realize this is a bit of a hijack, but this is why I see the choice between carbon steel and stainless as an absolute no brainer for a knife that is carried and used on a regular basis. When, by choosing the material of the knife, you can dramatically curtail/slow one of the four processes by which knives become dull, it makes no sense to quibble about whether or not another material might, or might not have some small advantage in terms of the other three dulling processes.

    I break the dulling processes down as follows. Corrosion, abrasion, deformation (rolling/bending) and breakage/chipping.

    Leonard Lee, in his excellent book (The Complete Guide to Sharpening) points out that corrosion dulling can take place at surprising speed.

    "Most woodworkers do not appreciate how quickly rust can degrade an edge. Even when no rust is apparent to the naked eye, it can be quietly destroying a good edge."​
     
  8. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    On the other hand, I have a 1916 Marbles Woodcraft, a WWI Samurai sword, and several WWII Camillus USN MKII's and Ka-Bars made out of carbon steel that I could go get off the display stand in the gun room right now and shave with?
    (Alright, kinda a rough shave, but still!)

    And none of them have been sharpened for years.

    Hard to find a stainless steel knife around here that sharpens as easily, or stays any sharper longer.

    So, whats up with that??

    rc
     
  9. JohnKSa

    JohnKSa Member

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    What's the average humidity in KS, how often do you handle the blades, how often do you use them to cut anything? In a dry environment, a knife that is never used or handled probably won't lose much sharpness to corrosion regardless of what it's made from.

    If one were, for the sake argument, to discuss instead "a knife that is carried and used on a regular basis", things would be much different. ;)
    It's always interesting to see someone comment that a knife is hard to sharpen as if that's an indictment.

    The dulling processes are corrosion, abrasion, deformation (rolling/bending) and breakage/chipping.

    A knife that is hard to sharpen, is resistant to abrasion. In other words, when someone states that one knife is harder to sharpen than another they are saying that knife is more resistant to abrasion and also, therefore, more resistant to dulling by abrasion. A knife that is easy to sharpen is easy to sharpen because it abrades easily and, as a consequence, it will also more easily dull by abrasion.
     
  10. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    All true.
    But I have a D2 blade in my pocket, alternating with a 154CM EDC.
    They both dull about as easily as the old Case carbon steel knife I used to EDC.

    But I could sharpen the old Case on my dusty boot toe every 15 minutes while field dressing game if thats all I had.

    I'm still looking for a good, easy, fast way to sharpen D2 or 154CM, short of a diamond hone or ceramic sharpener.

    And I have been looking since I got my first S/S knife in 1960 something.

    rc
     
  11. JohnKSa

    JohnKSa Member

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    Diamonds and ceramics are the way to go. There are some pretty compact solutions out there these days.

    Because a good, tough stainless isn't that likely to chip, corrode or abrade rapidly, deformation is the main thing you have to worry about in hard use. If you steel the knife properly and regularly while you're using it, it will stay sharp a surprisingly long time because you're keeping the edge from rolling over so far that it breaks off.
    Can you get candles? You might try making your own cosmoline like product by mixing melted candle wax and motor oil.
     
  12. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    Yes, I know that.
    I have all of them.

    I was just saying I didn't need any of them until all the super-hard stainless-steels came alone beginning in 1960 something.

    But if I want to go kill something and field dress it, without packing a super-steel knife sharpener kit?

    I still take a 1916 carbon steel Marbles Woodcraft, or an old Case folding hunter.
    Because they don't get any better or sharper then that at field dressing game.

    rc
     
  13. Gordon

    Gordon Member

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    Sam's Camp Defender was used on a couple BarB ques at camps this summer. On the last one I took it out of the sheath a few days after cutting up meat and just rinsing off . It was getting pretty brown and fuzzy!:what: The meat juices had discolored it before but this was verging on pitted :fire: How stupid of me!:banghead::banghead:
    I wasn't real happy when Valkman made my 7" fighter out of CPM 154 when I ordered D-2. After using it a few years around acidic barnyard things in this damp redwood forest it still looks new and it has just been wiped down a few times! I'm willing to conceed SOME stainless steels are good for some conditions when constant attention is not given.
     
  14. Valkman

    Valkman Member

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    Oops! :D

    Yes! I only used the best!
     
  15. JShirley

    JShirley Administrator Staff Member

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    That Camp Defender is 5160. Not especially rust-prone, but definitely NOT stainless.
     
  16. JohnKSa

    JohnKSa Member

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    If you have a shirt pocket, you can slip this in it and avoid packing a kit.
    http://www.buckknives.com/index.cfm?event=product.detail&productID=3033

    If you prefer ceramics, here's another light/compact option. http://www.gatcosharpeners.com/product/ceramic/triseps.mgi?mgiToken=SHJFFNMQI8WN276V1

    Both will sharpen pretty much any steel on the market. Both will, if one is so inclined handle serrated knives. Both are small, light and easy to carry and can be had for less than $10.

    I've used both and found them to be functional.
     
  17. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    Buck Diamond pocket sharpener?
    Bought my first one in 1968.
    Pretty worthless for todays super steels, and still in my Junque collection in the Junque drawer in the Junque room.

    Ceramic pocket sharpeners?
    Got some of those around here somewhere too.
    Probably in the same Junque drawer with the Buck pocket hone!

    What works for me is a DMT folding Medium diamond pocket hone, or a 10" DMT diamond steel.

    But still, it's more then I ever needed to pack around to keep an old carbon-steel knife cutting meat as long as it needed too cut meat and get-r-done in the field.


    rc
     
  18. JohnKSa

    JohnKSa Member

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    Ok, I'm getting lost now...

    What kind of steel can only be sharpened by DMT diamond hones but not Buck diamond hones?
     
  19. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    The Buck diamond hone I bought wore out in no time flat.

    All the diamonds wore off until it won't cut anymore.

    All four DMT hones I have owned for close to 20 years are all still going strong.

    rc
     
  20. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    Then the Buck was a poor product as opposed to DMT or Gatco or others.
     
  21. MutinousDoug

    MutinousDoug Member

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    I posted above that I had no bayonet, Kabar or other issue knife besides my machete so in 1970 RVN, I got my folks to send me a George L. Herter's Canadian knife. Carbon steel in a leather sheath. I had a hard Arkansas stone to touch it up.

    I didn't have any trouble with rust on a knife I used everyday, in spite of the fact I carried it strapped to my shin 'cause my belt was pretty much occupied most of the time. LSA goop didn't do much to protect the sheath which had hardened to about asphalt by the time I got back states-side but it seemed to keep the steel in one piece save normal staining.
     
  22. cyclopsshooter

    cyclopsshooter Member

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    Never would have thought that would be a problem in Cambodia.. Most Cambodians can't afford extra knives to just "store".. Seriously though... the Khmer are the nicest people I have met in all my travels. Hope to go back someday.

    Can't someone mail you some Ren wax?

    I have been curious for a while what you do there..? If it's ok to ask.
     
  23. Brian Williams

    Brian Williams Moderator Emeritus

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    I can get ren wax sent by a friend who is coming in Jan. I am going to get some carnuba based car wax from a local store and that should work for a while.
    cyclopsshooter, I am studying the language to work with the church here in Cambodia. (Missionary).
     
  24. cyclopsshooter

    cyclopsshooter Member

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    Very cool, being in country is the best way to learn a language.
     
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