S&W 19-5 Combat Magnun with bent ejector rod

[Deaf Smith]

Folks I picked up a 2 1/2 inch 19-5 Combat Magnum. Real good shape for only $399 including tax! But...

When cocking it two chambers are hard to turn past (or shall I say were hard to turn.)

The ejector rod had alot of wear on once side of the rod inside the cylinder. Bent rod.

I replaced it with a stainless steel one and most of the drag is gone.

Most but not all.

Could the center pin be also slightly bent?

Thanks,

Deaf

 

[silicosys4]

If the gun has a bent ejector rod, there is a chance the cylinder was "flipped" open and shut too many times. The gun might have a sprung crane as a result. Does the gap between the crane and the frame still line up tight and true? That might be the source of at least some of your issues.

 

[Deaf Smith]

No gap at all. When I first got it, after opening the cylinder I would rotate the cylinder by hand and it would drag on about 2 chambers and then rotate freely for the next 4 chambers. Now after changing the ejector rod it just drags a bit.

Deaf

 

[BCRider]

If the ejector "tube" was bent than the middle rod is almost certainly kinked as well.

 

[Malamute]

I would doubt the center pin is causing the drag once it has a straight rod. You could remove it and roll it in a flat surface and probably see if its not straight.

Have you cleaned under the extractor star and its recess in the cylinder really good? A little crud there can cause friction. Be sure the front end of the new rod isn't burred any. An RCBS deburring tool can remove small burrs.

Have you checked Brownells for a blued rod? They don't cost much last I looked.

 

[silicosys4]

I just picked up a blued rod for a 586, I think they are the same.
The best price I could find was on eBay.

 

[stu1ritter]

The center pin will indeed induce drag and if the extractor rod was bent there is a great change the center pin is also bent. Just take it out and roll it across a known flat surface (your table saw or such) and see if it bobs and weaves. You can straighten them fairly easily or a new one from S&W is $7.10.
Stu

 

[MikeJackmin]

Load it up with .38s and see if it is spitting lead out the sides.

 

[Deaf Smith]

Ok gang. I'll go by my favorite gun store that has a huge bunch of S&W parts (it's where I got the ejector rod for $8 bucks!) and I'll see if he has a 2 1.2 inch center pin AND see if the ejector star extractor threads, where the rod extension screws into, is bent to.)

It's a fun project. The gun shoots one hole groups and is excellent in all other respects so I sure won't give up on it!

Deaf

 

[Old Fuff]

Bent ejector rods are more common on longer ones used on 4-inch or longer barrels, One common cause is when someone shoots a few .357 rounds after a pile of .38 Special cartridges with lead bullets, and finds the .357 cases don't want to come out (!). Of course the solution is to get a hammer or something else to pound the rod with. If the cylinder has been swung out during this operation a sprung yoke barrel (on which the cylinder revolves) may be added to the potential problems.

Since the center rod is closely fitted inside the ejector rod it is difficult to bend the rod without also doing the same to the pin. I would replace both and also check the yoke for damage.

This might also explain why the revolver ended up for sale in the first place.

 

[Deaf Smith]

Fixed it as slick as can be.

Once the ejector rod had been replaced then the center pin had just a bit of wear when it brushed against the spring (and the spring against the housing.)

So... got my Black-N-Decker drill, put the center pin in it, and with a wetstone I then proceeded to 'lathe' down the part of the pin with the wear on it.

Just brightened up the section but not the whole pin.

Works slick now. Cylinder springs freely, cocking is consistent and not heavy. Locks on all chambers. No end shake, crane shake, cylinder shake.. ah....

And now to take it apart one more time to super slick up the action. Apart to the bare frame and empty cylinder! Then lock-tite it all up.

Deaf

 

[stu1ritter]

DO NOT locktite the ejector rod. Just tight is enough. Loctite doesn't belong there. Just accept your success and go on from there.
Stu

 

[Malamute]

I never Loctite them either. I take the cylinder out of the gun, carefully clamp the rod in leather in a vise, put several empties in the chambers, loosen it free, then gently but firmly torque it by hand. I've never had one come loose after this, despite much carrying and shooting.

BTW, as a bit of preventative maintenance, spinning the cylinder with it open, using the rod to spin it, and then stop it by the rod, going both ways a couple times, an almost loose rod can make itself known. I've found a couple that came loose when doing this, so make it part of my routine now and then, though I haven't ever had a decently torqued rod come loose.

 

[Deaf Smith]

Ok strange thing.

If I tighten the ejector rod in tight the cylinder does still drag just a bit on those same two chambers when I cock it or spin the cylinder by hand when closed.

But if I back off the rod just 2/3 turn then when fully closed it spins freely and cocks freely.

I suspect the ejector rod spring is maybe being compressed to much if I screw the ejector rod all the way in.

Now the ejector rod has the threads start a bit up from the bottom of the rod (in other words there is some extra rod length that is not threaded at the bottom.)

Bet I can take just a bit off that and that would not tighten that spring so much.

And yes, I'll skip the lock-tite.

Deaf

 

[Malamute]

The spring shouldn't make it bind, it has a LOT of room to compress when the rod is used. I dont think the threaded end end of the rod would make much difference, though I may be missing something.

Have you checked the end of the rod where the front bolt locks into it? If its burred inside the end of the rod, it can bind some. I've deburred a couple that were helped by it

You may find the new rod is bent a little. It wouldn't be the first time a new part wasn't perfect. Have you spun it and looked at it?

If you take some off the inside end of the rod, you may end up with more clearance at the front than desired.

If nothing becomes apparent, this is one case I'd be in favor of very sparing use of loc-tite.

 

[Old Fuff]

The spring shouldn't make it bind, it has a LOT of room to compress when the rod is used.

Occasionally you will find a yoke with a barrel that has an undersized or rough hole where the extractor spring goes. For that reason Brownells offer a special reamer to clean out the hole - should that become necessary. This is yet another small but sometimes important procedure that professional 'smiths do as part of an action tune-up.

 

[Deaf Smith]

The new ejector rod is overlong! I compared it to the original and where the threaded part is the new one is longer (in fact the whole thing is over long just a bit.)

I have shortened it some. Now about 1/4 a turn will stop all the binding.

So... I will continue to do so and shorten it just a bit more.

I do wish I had a very small lock washer that would take up the space, lock the rod in place, and make it just a bit longer but not so long it locks up the whole shebang if closed (and can't unlock it!)

Deaf

 

[Deaf Smith]

Strange... Still a bit of drag on those two cylinders unless I back off 1/5th of a turn or a bit less.

Yes less. If I just don't tighten the ejector rod it goes ok. Just screw it tight and then back off till I hear it 'give' as it just starts to unscrew. Works fine that way.

And no, the center pin rod is not burred and it is ALWAYS the same two chambers that drag as they pass the barrel (and they don't touch the forcing cone or anything like that.

Also if I open the cylinder and spin it, it spins fine, ejector rod screwed tight or not.

Guess I could loc-tite it just a bit short of being screwed in tight and that would do it.

Yea yea, I know I should not need loc-tite but still....

Deaf

 

[murf]

suggest you check the ratchets on the back of the cylinder. you may have a burr, or high spot dragging on the recoil shield.

murf

 

[4D5]

I've fixed several of my S&W revolvers with similar issues.

From the discussions, I suspect that the ejector/rod is bent, and/or the ejector rod has been tightened down so hard that the threads have been distorted and cause misalignment of the parts when tightened down firmly. That would explain the "when it's not screwed down tight it turns freely".

Having the ejector rod not screwed down tight will allow the parts to "wiggle" around a bit and not bind.

There's another possible condition as well. The bottom of the cylinder, where the yoke tube contacts the cylinder bottom may not be true or have burr and the end of the yoke tube may not be square. Consequently, when the two high points intersect a bind occurs.

I've seen more than one revolver with a out of square yoke end. I also owned one revolver where the cylinder bottom looked like it had been machined with a backhoe.

For starters, I would disassemble the cylinder/parts completely, screw only the ejector rod into the ejector while in the cylinder, then remove the assembled rod/ejector and check for true as recommend above by rolling on a flat surface.

Additionally, to eliminate cylinder/yoke causes, you could assemble the cylinder on the yoke without any other parts and install in the gun (much like checking for cylinder end shake). Now you'll be able to tell if the cylinder is binding when you rotate it; absent any effect from the ejector parts, thus eliminating the possibility I described about out of square yoke tube and burr/problem with cylinder bottom.

There several tools for fixing/checking all these issues, but unless you do a lot of your own work, are not worth the investment.

Good luck and let us know how it goes.

-

 

[sgt127]

There's another possible condition as well. The bottom of the cylinder, where the yoke tube contacts the cylinder bottom may not be true or have burr and the end of the yoke tube may not be square. Consequently, when the two high points intersect a bind occurs.

I've found that the end of the yoke being a tiny bit out of square, will cause the exact problem. You can generally see a burnished spot in it.

I have a yoke reamer if you want to borrow it. And a yoke stretcher. If you true up the end of the yoke, go light or you will be needing the yoke stretcher.

 

[4D5]

sgt127
I have a yoke reamer if you want to borrow it. And a yoke stretcher. If you true up the end of the yoke, go light or you will be needing the yoke stretcher.

He'll also need the yoke tube alignment tool (to fill the tube) if he has to stretch the yoke tube, otherwise the yoke tube will be crushed/made out of round

-

 

[sgt127]

Actually, I have a drill bit that works as the anvil.

I would, of course, let him borrow that to go with it. I've got a mean streak, but, I'm not cruel!!

 

[Deaf Smith]

Wow guys... I'll have to digest all this and get the gun out tomorrow and have a look-see.

I wonder if I just got another crane and made a swap if that would do it. Or does that part need extra fitting?

Thanks.

Deaf

 

[Old Fuff]

During the time period your model 19 was made, yokes ("crane" is Colt-talk ) were individually fitted to each frame. Thus you would have two problems. First, a yoke from another revolver might, or might not, fit. Second, you might have trouble finding one.

But the good news is that a competent gunsmith or S&W could probably salvage the one you have, and do so for relatively low cost over fitting a different one.

This of course presumes they're is a problem with the one in your revolver, and that is not certain. It might be fine.