entropy
Member
Officer's Model Target .22. Model 17 is a close second.
S&W .22 revolver
- Thread starter fallout mike
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DM~
Member
Actually, I prefer the model 18 to the 17, and in fact I've long since sold my 17's...
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Driftwood Johnson
Member
Howdy
I'm incredibly biased, but I think you just can't go wrong with a K frame S&W 22. The one all the way on the right is my Model 17-3 that I bought brand-spanky new in 1975 for the then princely sum of $125. The rest are various K-22s (the predecessor to the Model 17). The one in the middle is the best shooter of the bunch, a K-22 Outdoorsman from 1932. The finish is a bit worn, so I was able to get it a few years ago for $500. Because of the finish, the serious collectors were not interested. I had it lettered, and it was shipped to the Providence Rhode Island Board of Public Safety. Roy Jinks thinks it was used by a police pistol team. It was sent back to the factory in 1946 for a bit of a tune up. Like I said, it is the best shooter of the bunch.
Sorry, I just can't get excited about the Model 617. I bought this Model 617-6 used a few years ago. It was made in 2003. I just think the full underlug of the barrel is UGLY. Really front heavy too. I bought it because I stumbled on it at a local shop, I did not yet have any MIM guns, and the price was pretty good. I was shooting some steel plate matches back then and I needed to put eight rounds onto a steel target really fast. Could not do that with a six shooter, but this ten shooter made that possible. But after shooting it a few times it never comes to the range with me anymore.
Compare that ugly thing to my Model 17-3. The 617 can't hold a candle to the Model 17. And the action is better on the Model 17 too.
Smith and Wesson still catalogs the Model 17 in their Classic line. The list price is $989. For that you get MIM parts, the lock, and laminated wood grips. There are still plenty of nice old Model 17s and K-22s out there, made the old fashioned way. You just have to hunt a bit. You will get a better gun for your money.
The story on the Kit guns is way back in 1902 the only 22 rimfire revolvers with swing out cylinders that S&W was making was the tiny M frame Ladysmith. Forget about those J frame things S&W is marketing today that they call Lady Smiths, they ain't Ladysmiths. The Ladysmith was a seven shot double action revolver chambered for 22 Long, not 22 Long Rifle. This one is a 3rd Model Ladysmith that shipped in 1910.
Anyway, in 1911 a San Francisco gun dealer named Phil Bekeart got the bright idea that a 22 target revolver built on the I frame (bigger than the M frame) would be the bee's knees. The I frame was designed to be the right size for a six shot 32 caliber revolver, smaller than the K frame. S&W wasn't so hot on the idea, but agreed to make a production run if Bekeart would buy all 292 guns in the production run. Because the guns were built on the 32 sized I frame, but were chambered for 22 rimfire, they were called the 22/32 Hand Ejector. Also known as the 22/32 Heavy Frame Target, which is really funny because they are quite a bit smaller than the K frame 22s. But K frame 22s didn't happen until the 1930s, so Heavy Frame it was. They were also known as the 22/32 Bekeart in honor of Phil. This is not a 'true' Bekeart, it shipped much later in 1940, but this is what they looked like, with the grips that made them big enough to shoot accurately.
This photo shows the relative sizes, top to bottom, of a K frame K-22, I frame 22/32 Heavy Frame Target, and a Ladysmith.
In 1935 S&W started making the 22/32 Kit Gun. Still built on the I frame, it was a six shot 22 rimfire pocket revolver with a four inch barrel. They were called Kit Guns because they were the ideal size to bring along on a camping trip or in a tackle kit. This version was made until the start of World War II in 1941. In 1946 production started up again with the Postwar 22/32 Kit Gun, still built on the I frame. These were made until 1952.
In 1953 S&W introduced the Model of 1953 (duh) 22/32, built on an improved I frame with a coil main spring and an improved hammer block.
The J frame Kit Gun finally showed up in 1955 with an aluminum frame. The J frame is slightly longer than the old I frame and has a more elongated trigger guard. Still a 32 caliber size gun.
When S&W went over to a model number naming scheme in 1957, the 22/32 Kit Gun became the Model 34.
This Model 63 22/32 Kit Gun was made around 1980. Like all Stainless S&W revolvers, the first digit in the model number is 6.
Sorry, I don't have a comparison photo showing the J frame Kit Gun next to a K frame Model 17, but the Kit Gun frame is pretty much the same size as the Bekeart, except it will have a four inch barrel.
Although the 22/32 Kit Gun is an ideal size to put in your pocket while hiking through the woods, I don't seem to do that very much. I can't remember the last time I shot my Kit Gun. But I shoot my K frame Model 17 and K-22s all the time. Being a bit larger and heavier, I find they are perfect for bouncing soup cans around at the 25 yard berm, as well as serious target shooting.
I'm incredibly biased, but I think you just can't go wrong with a K frame S&W 22. The one all the way on the right is my Model 17-3 that I bought brand-spanky new in 1975 for the then princely sum of $125. The rest are various K-22s (the predecessor to the Model 17). The one in the middle is the best shooter of the bunch, a K-22 Outdoorsman from 1932. The finish is a bit worn, so I was able to get it a few years ago for $500. Because of the finish, the serious collectors were not interested. I had it lettered, and it was shipped to the Providence Rhode Island Board of Public Safety. Roy Jinks thinks it was used by a police pistol team. It was sent back to the factory in 1946 for a bit of a tune up. Like I said, it is the best shooter of the bunch.
Sorry, I just can't get excited about the Model 617. I bought this Model 617-6 used a few years ago. It was made in 2003. I just think the full underlug of the barrel is UGLY. Really front heavy too. I bought it because I stumbled on it at a local shop, I did not yet have any MIM guns, and the price was pretty good. I was shooting some steel plate matches back then and I needed to put eight rounds onto a steel target really fast. Could not do that with a six shooter, but this ten shooter made that possible. But after shooting it a few times it never comes to the range with me anymore.
Compare that ugly thing to my Model 17-3. The 617 can't hold a candle to the Model 17. And the action is better on the Model 17 too.
Smith and Wesson still catalogs the Model 17 in their Classic line. The list price is $989. For that you get MIM parts, the lock, and laminated wood grips. There are still plenty of nice old Model 17s and K-22s out there, made the old fashioned way. You just have to hunt a bit. You will get a better gun for your money.
The story on the Kit guns is way back in 1902 the only 22 rimfire revolvers with swing out cylinders that S&W was making was the tiny M frame Ladysmith. Forget about those J frame things S&W is marketing today that they call Lady Smiths, they ain't Ladysmiths. The Ladysmith was a seven shot double action revolver chambered for 22 Long, not 22 Long Rifle. This one is a 3rd Model Ladysmith that shipped in 1910.
Anyway, in 1911 a San Francisco gun dealer named Phil Bekeart got the bright idea that a 22 target revolver built on the I frame (bigger than the M frame) would be the bee's knees. The I frame was designed to be the right size for a six shot 32 caliber revolver, smaller than the K frame. S&W wasn't so hot on the idea, but agreed to make a production run if Bekeart would buy all 292 guns in the production run. Because the guns were built on the 32 sized I frame, but were chambered for 22 rimfire, they were called the 22/32 Hand Ejector. Also known as the 22/32 Heavy Frame Target, which is really funny because they are quite a bit smaller than the K frame 22s. But K frame 22s didn't happen until the 1930s, so Heavy Frame it was. They were also known as the 22/32 Bekeart in honor of Phil. This is not a 'true' Bekeart, it shipped much later in 1940, but this is what they looked like, with the grips that made them big enough to shoot accurately.
This photo shows the relative sizes, top to bottom, of a K frame K-22, I frame 22/32 Heavy Frame Target, and a Ladysmith.
In 1935 S&W started making the 22/32 Kit Gun. Still built on the I frame, it was a six shot 22 rimfire pocket revolver with a four inch barrel. They were called Kit Guns because they were the ideal size to bring along on a camping trip or in a tackle kit. This version was made until the start of World War II in 1941. In 1946 production started up again with the Postwar 22/32 Kit Gun, still built on the I frame. These were made until 1952.
In 1953 S&W introduced the Model of 1953 (duh) 22/32, built on an improved I frame with a coil main spring and an improved hammer block.
The J frame Kit Gun finally showed up in 1955 with an aluminum frame. The J frame is slightly longer than the old I frame and has a more elongated trigger guard. Still a 32 caliber size gun.
When S&W went over to a model number naming scheme in 1957, the 22/32 Kit Gun became the Model 34.
This Model 63 22/32 Kit Gun was made around 1980. Like all Stainless S&W revolvers, the first digit in the model number is 6.
Sorry, I don't have a comparison photo showing the J frame Kit Gun next to a K frame Model 17, but the Kit Gun frame is pretty much the same size as the Bekeart, except it will have a four inch barrel.
Although the 22/32 Kit Gun is an ideal size to put in your pocket while hiking through the woods, I don't seem to do that very much. I can't remember the last time I shot my Kit Gun. But I shoot my K frame Model 17 and K-22s all the time. Being a bit larger and heavier, I find they are perfect for bouncing soup cans around at the 25 yard berm, as well as serious target shooting.
CajunBass
Member
I'm a Smith & Wesson guy, so I'll join in with the choir and say find a K-22, with either a 6" or a 4" barrel. I don't think you can go wrong with either.
However, a couple of guns no one has suggested that I've owned and liked. Up first. Dan Wesson 22. The ONLY thing that keeps them off the top of my list is that they are BIG and HEAVY. They're closer to the size of a S&W "L" frame gun than a K , but man every one I've ever seen shot like a laser beam. In theory you can change the barrels, something I never bothered to do, but it's there if you wanted to. They're only six shooters, so all that extra steel adds weight.
Taurus 96. I know Taurus doesn't get a lot of good play on this or most other boards, but they have made some good guns. The Model 96 was one of them. They're basically a clone of the Model 17, the only physical differences are the contour of the trigger, and the Taurus has a more matted finish. Not bad, just different. I've owned two of them, sold them off to someone who wanted them more than I did, but they were good guns. At the time I paid about half what a Model 17 was going for. They either didn't make many or the people who have them don't let go of them because I seldom see them.
In the end though, I'm a Smith & Wesson guy. Half or more of the fun is finding that gem in the rough. I found this K-22 from 1948 a month or so ago for less than $500.00. It's finish challenged, but mechanically tight as the day it left the factory. So for those who wanted a picture or two.
However, a couple of guns no one has suggested that I've owned and liked. Up first. Dan Wesson 22. The ONLY thing that keeps them off the top of my list is that they are BIG and HEAVY. They're closer to the size of a S&W "L" frame gun than a K , but man every one I've ever seen shot like a laser beam. In theory you can change the barrels, something I never bothered to do, but it's there if you wanted to. They're only six shooters, so all that extra steel adds weight.
Taurus 96. I know Taurus doesn't get a lot of good play on this or most other boards, but they have made some good guns. The Model 96 was one of them. They're basically a clone of the Model 17, the only physical differences are the contour of the trigger, and the Taurus has a more matted finish. Not bad, just different. I've owned two of them, sold them off to someone who wanted them more than I did, but they were good guns. At the time I paid about half what a Model 17 was going for. They either didn't make many or the people who have them don't let go of them because I seldom see them.
In the end though, I'm a Smith & Wesson guy. Half or more of the fun is finding that gem in the rough. I found this K-22 from 1948 a month or so ago for less than $500.00. It's finish challenged, but mechanically tight as the day it left the factory. So for those who wanted a picture or two.
bannockburn
Member
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2007
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- 26,308
Charliefrank
I found this Model 34 in a gun shop about 6 years ago. Was looking for a .22 for my then girlfriend (later wife), to learn how to shoot with. Couldn't find a Model 17 so I figured a Model 34 with a 4" barrel would be the next best thing. Added the Hogue Monogrip as the factory grips were just too small and uncomfortable for her to use. Great little gun for first time shooters who aren't accustomed to .22 semi-autos yet.
I found this Model 34 in a gun shop about 6 years ago. Was looking for a .22 for my then girlfriend (later wife), to learn how to shoot with. Couldn't find a Model 17 so I figured a Model 34 with a 4" barrel would be the next best thing. Added the Hogue Monogrip as the factory grips were just too small and uncomfortable for her to use. Great little gun for first time shooters who aren't accustomed to .22 semi-autos yet.
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thomas15
Member
My vote is for the 617 however out of the box the trigger is a tad bit heavy.
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fallout mike
Member
Man those K-22's and 17's are sexy! That's probably what I'll be looking for. Other pics posted here look good as well and I would buy any of them if the price was right. However, the 22 and 17 just do it for me looks wise. It will be fun trying to find one. I've got a 6" 586 no dash that is nearly immaculate that took me 2 years of looking at gunshops, pawn shops and gun shows to find. It was very satisfying when i actually found it a couple years ago.
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fallout mike
Member
I'm not a brand snob by not wanting a Ruger or Dan Wesson, or Taurus. I have currently or have had revolvers made by them. I never had any issues. I've just been on this S&W kick here lately and it's been fun trying to find them in decent condition and my 12 year old enjoys shooting them more than any other guns I own. He's a gun nut as well. I'm sure he will appreciate inheriting a Smith collection hopefully MANY years down the road. Lol
I have a 4" 10-shot 617 and a vintage 6" K-22. As an heirloom, it's tough to beat the sex appeal and panache of a vintage K-22. As an overall shooter, though, it's tough to beat my 617 - 10-shots, highly versatile, and at least the equal of my K-22 in the accuracy department. I can target shoot with it, shoot rimfire steel matches with it, use it in practice as an understudy to my 686, stick it in a holster, take it into the field for small game...it was easily one of my wiser firearm purchases.
10 yards...
25 yards...
10 yards...
25 yards...
Here are some K frame 22 LR revolvers.
Top revolver is a Model 17-3, 8-3/8" barrel, the middle is a Model 17-4 with a 4" barrel, and the bottom is a Model 18-4 with a 4" barrel. I bought the Model 18 new back around 1980.
Here are some J frame 22 LR revolvers.
The top revolver is a Model 34-1, the second revolver is a Model 18 for size comparison. The third revolver is a Model 51 (22 Magnum), and the bottom revolver is a Model 317-3 AirLite.
(I prefer Pachmayr grips over the original S&W grips for a number of reasons. I have kept the original grips for the next owner.)
Top revolver is a Model 17-3, 8-3/8" barrel, the middle is a Model 17-4 with a 4" barrel, and the bottom is a Model 18-4 with a 4" barrel. I bought the Model 18 new back around 1980.
Here are some J frame 22 LR revolvers.
The top revolver is a Model 34-1, the second revolver is a Model 18 for size comparison. The third revolver is a Model 51 (22 Magnum), and the bottom revolver is a Model 317-3 AirLite.
(I prefer Pachmayr grips over the original S&W grips for a number of reasons. I have kept the original grips for the next owner.)
farm23
Member
In 22 revolvers I only have a old 3 screw Ruger 22/22mag combo and it has 1000's of rounds thru it and will have 1000's more it gets pasted on. But if I was buying a S&W today it would be a 10 shot 617 4 inch. They are well made and will probably last as long as my Ruger. When you figure the cost of any weapon and think on how many years it will serve you the 1st cost is small.
Ok, since some prices and stories have been coming out, I got a couple stories.
A couple years ago, I was at a flea market. Lots of junk but pretty much every time I went, I found something worthwhile. I walked up to a table that an older gentleman had and I spotted two blue boxes with K-Frames in them. Both guns appeared to be unfired, in the box. One was a Model 17, the other was a Model 48 (.22 Mag). I asked what he wanted for them and he said, $250 each. I couldn't get the money out of my pocket fast enough, and bought the Model 48. I told the guy I was with: you are crazy if you don't buy that Model 17. And he said, if that is such a great deal why arn't you buying it? And I said, I already have three of them and I don't have the money to buy a forth. He didn't buy it. Somebody else got an unbelievable deal.
I mentioned that I have two Model 34s. This story is really incredible. I got a call from a guy I worked with (everybody knew I was into guns and I got a fair number of calls from people with gun questions). This guy says he has a bunch of guns he wants to sell that he got from his uncles estate. He has no interest in guns and if I tell him what they are worth so he can sell them, I can buy whatever I want for a reasonable price. I inquire further about the story. It seems that his uncle owned a machine shop. This guy I worked with built sand rails and had been an aircraft mechanic. His uncle died and a year passed. He called his cousin to ask what she ended up doing with the contents of her dad's machine shop ? She said that she was going to call someone to come and haul it all away; she didn't want any of it, and she didn't want to deal with selling it. So he asked if he could drive up there and take what he wanted: she said, sure, no problem. So he drove from Nevada, up to Washington; picked over the machine tools and all that. As he was leaving, there was a dumpster sitting there and sort of as an afterthought, he opened the lid on it and the dumpster was full of in the box guns !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Again, he didn't want them and had no interest in them but if his cousin was just going to have the stuff hauled away, he asked her and got permission to take them. And that is where I got my two model 34s. Along with a cherry Model 25. He had some stuff in there that was really nice (two AR-180s new in the box) but that is all I bought. But you talk about an incredible find !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
A couple years ago, I was at a flea market. Lots of junk but pretty much every time I went, I found something worthwhile. I walked up to a table that an older gentleman had and I spotted two blue boxes with K-Frames in them. Both guns appeared to be unfired, in the box. One was a Model 17, the other was a Model 48 (.22 Mag). I asked what he wanted for them and he said, $250 each. I couldn't get the money out of my pocket fast enough, and bought the Model 48. I told the guy I was with: you are crazy if you don't buy that Model 17. And he said, if that is such a great deal why arn't you buying it? And I said, I already have three of them and I don't have the money to buy a forth. He didn't buy it. Somebody else got an unbelievable deal.
I mentioned that I have two Model 34s. This story is really incredible. I got a call from a guy I worked with (everybody knew I was into guns and I got a fair number of calls from people with gun questions). This guy says he has a bunch of guns he wants to sell that he got from his uncles estate. He has no interest in guns and if I tell him what they are worth so he can sell them, I can buy whatever I want for a reasonable price. I inquire further about the story. It seems that his uncle owned a machine shop. This guy I worked with built sand rails and had been an aircraft mechanic. His uncle died and a year passed. He called his cousin to ask what she ended up doing with the contents of her dad's machine shop ? She said that she was going to call someone to come and haul it all away; she didn't want any of it, and she didn't want to deal with selling it. So he asked if he could drive up there and take what he wanted: she said, sure, no problem. So he drove from Nevada, up to Washington; picked over the machine tools and all that. As he was leaving, there was a dumpster sitting there and sort of as an afterthought, he opened the lid on it and the dumpster was full of in the box guns !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Again, he didn't want them and had no interest in them but if his cousin was just going to have the stuff hauled away, he asked her and got permission to take them. And that is where I got my two model 34s. Along with a cherry Model 25. He had some stuff in there that was really nice (two AR-180s new in the box) but that is all I bought. But you talk about an incredible find !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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fallout mike
Member
Kinda off topic but any of you guys have a Smith in .32 mag? It's on my list to get as well.
walnut1704
Member
I have pretty much exactly the same story, only the gun was a new Model 63 from an LGS and it was more like 35 years ago. I have a set of Pachmayrs for when I shoot it. She never shoots it, but she likes it with stag. For me, I'd like to have a six-shot Model 617. I have a hard time with small guns and I've even thought of selling the 63, but the wife wants me to keep it to teach the grandkids with.
A bit more S&W history. Their "premium" target revolvers were the K-38 Masterpiece (later Model 14, .38 Spl) and the K-22 Masterpiece (later Model 17, .22 LR) and the K-32 (later Model 16, .32 S&W Long). The K-32 never was a top seller and not a lot were made. The K-32/Model 16 was discontinued in 1974. The Model 16-4 was re-introduced in 1989 in .32 H&R Mag and approx. 8800 were made over the next 4 years before they were once again discontinued. As these are somewhat scarce models, they command a premium price. Seldom do you have the opportunity to get one for less than $1500, usually considerably more. I lucked out about a year ago and landed one with 8 3/8" barrel for $900. The older K-32s chambered in .32 S&W Long are even more scarce and expensive. If you seriously want one, I would suggest you "bite the bullet" and get one now. Over the past two years or so, their prices have gone significantly higher.
Model 16-4, 1990:
Back to .22s:
.22/32 Heavy Frame Target (Bekeart Model), 1924:
Model of 1953 .22/32 Kit Gun, Improved I Frame, 1955:
K-22 Masterpiece, 1953:
K-22 Combat Masterpiece (Pre-18), 1957:
K-22 Masterpiece, Model 17-4, 1980:
Driftwood Johnson
Member
I would bite the bullet in a heartbeat if I could find either a K-32 or a Model 16. Wouldn't be too picky about condition either. Trouble is, I ain't found one yet. Don't think I would go for the 16-4 though. Don't like full lug barrels.
I had a 317LS and the trigger pull was just to heavy for my tastes.
I do have a SW 632 in 327 mag - sweet J frame. Also, a 432 in 32 HR Mag. Both are fine guns. The latter makes a nice 6 shot Bug or pocket gun when I can't do a belt gun.
I have to admit that I bought a Ruger SS Bearcat as a 22 Plinker. The new 63's weren't out and the price was right.
I do have a SW 632 in 327 mag - sweet J frame. Also, a 432 in 32 HR Mag. Both are fine guns. The latter makes a nice 6 shot Bug or pocket gun when I can't do a belt gun.
I have to admit that I bought a Ruger SS Bearcat as a 22 Plinker. The new 63's weren't out and the price was right.
JFrame
Member
I've never owned or fired any of the bigger S&W .22's -- but I've heard nothing but great things about them. 
I purchased this used 6-shot S&W 63 (bottom) back in 1980, and it is still as tight, precise, and reliable as the day I bought it. The previous owner had added the Patridge front sight and wood grips, and I really like them.
This 63 always makes my short list of "the one gun I would keep if I could only keep one."
I purchased this used 6-shot S&W 63 (bottom) back in 1980, and it is still as tight, precise, and reliable as the day I bought it. The previous owner had added the Patridge front sight and wood grips, and I really like them.
This 63 always makes my short list of "the one gun I would keep if I could only keep one."
Can't disagree with you at all. I'm not a fan of the full lug barrels either. BUT, (and there always is one), I wanted a Model 16 added to my K-frame accumulation. Didn't really want to pay $3k or more for an older pre-model K-32, so when this appeared in a local auction, I attended and ended up with it. Just couldn't pass it up for the price. Having said all that, the accuracy of this revolver is just astounding!
How dare you guys talk about your guns and not post pictures of them!
Hope your desire for pix has been satisfied. Lots of good "eye candy".
Tallball
Member
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2014
- Messages
- 7,814
Keep your eyes open. Six months ago or so I found a 6" K22 Masterpiece on Gunbroker. The finish was worn here and there and it had Pachmayers instead of the original wooden grips. I won it for a bid of a little over $400. It is mechanically very sound and has a SWEET trigger. It is extremely accurate. I highly recommend them.
My second favorite 22 revolver is my Ruger Single Six. It's another very nice handgun.
My second favorite 22 revolver is my Ruger Single Six. It's another very nice handgun.
bannockburn
Member
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2007
- Messages
- 26,308
walnut1704
Nice Model 63! That's pretty much how the Model 34 that I got my wife was; like new in the box with all of the paper work. Didn't even have a turn line and certainly didn't look like it had ever been fired. Took my brother out shooting several months ago (an avid dove hunter he had never shot a handgun before this), and started him out with the Model 34. He liked it a lot, especially in single action mode, and he was getting some nice groupings by the time we were done.
Nice Model 63! That's pretty much how the Model 34 that I got my wife was; like new in the box with all of the paper work. Didn't even have a turn line and certainly didn't look like it had ever been fired. Took my brother out shooting several months ago (an avid dove hunter he had never shot a handgun before this), and started him out with the Model 34. He liked it a lot, especially in single action mode, and he was getting some nice groupings by the time we were done.
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fallout mike
Member
All these pics has got me itching. Guess I'll be hitting gun shops and pawn shops this weekend.
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