s&w 38 special
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armoredman
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Pictures are worth a thousand words. If it is a Smith and Wesson, open the cylinder and look at what's stamped on the frame underneath it, as well.
Folks frequently ask us to identify a certain Smith & Wesson revolver that's marked: 38 special ctg. on the barrel. Unfortunately this doesn't help much because it only identifies the cartridge (CTG. = Cartridge) used in that particular gun.
However the "V" in the serial number provides a clue. The V-prefix was used between 1942 through 1945 on .38 Military & Police model revolvers being made during World War Two. Most were sold to the military services, but some went to police departments and security guards at defense plants making war material.
At this point I am way out on a limb, and a more accurate identification would require a much more complete description - and if possible, a picture.
I would expect that if the revolver is in its original condition it would have a 6-shot cylinder chambered in .38 Special, a 4" barrel measured from the cylinder's front face to the muzzle, plain uncheckered walnut stocks, a lanyard loop in the butt, and have a Parkerized flat gray finish.
However the "V" in the serial number provides a clue. The V-prefix was used between 1942 through 1945 on .38 Military & Police model revolvers being made during World War Two. Most were sold to the military services, but some went to police departments and security guards at defense plants making war material.
At this point I am way out on a limb, and a more accurate identification would require a much more complete description - and if possible, a picture.
I would expect that if the revolver is in its original condition it would have a 6-shot cylinder chambered in .38 Special, a 4" barrel measured from the cylinder's front face to the muzzle, plain uncheckered walnut stocks, a lanyard loop in the butt, and have a Parkerized flat gray finish.
Starter52
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+1 to Old Fuff. Sounds like a Victory Model S&W.
Smith & Wesson made about 800,000 of them during the war. Yours is from the middle of the run.
Smith & Wesson made about 800,000 of them during the war. Yours is from the middle of the run.
In this case it is not hard to make a really good ID, because that number is pretty unique among older S&W s/n systems. That would be about '43/'44 most likely, but hard to be any more precise with public information. The gun would be probably be as Old Fuff described.
Starter52 said:
His is one of two different models lumped together as a "Victory Model." His model was made in smaller numbers, more like 1/4 million.
His is an originally chambered .38 Special as per the barrel mark. S&W made closer to 1/4 million of them. They are outnumbered 2:1 by the .38/200 models for the British, giving a total production of near 800,000 I believe. They were all in the same serial number range, but were not the same "model." It's easy to argue they were variations of the same model, but S&W is not consistent about making different barrel lengths and chamberings variations of one model or two separate models. But by far more often than not, different chamberings are different models, not variations of the same. In this case, it's clear they considered it two models as it carried different names, and then model numbers after their introduction (the .38/200 model was known as the Model 11). S&W has, for most of the 20th Century, run multiple models in the same s/n sequence, and still does. But I think it's correct to collectively call them "Victory Modelss" and not just examples of one "Victory Model."
The reason I get nit-picky about this is there are a lot of people out their over-paying for the more common and less useful .38/200 Models. It's worth pointing out the differences so people can better understand what they are looking at and get the most out of their shopping dollars.
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FWIW, S&W never called them "Victory Models" in any official documents; they were always just "the M&P Model" a term that applied to both calibers. They did not have model numbers and there is absolutely no way to tell one made for the British from one made for the U.S. except by the caliber markings, ".38 S&W CTG" or ".38 S&W SPECIAL CTG". None were marked ".38/200" and in fact the British never used the 200 grain bullet in WWII.
The "Victory Model" came about because S&W's numbering machine only went to six digits. When production approached number 999999, they decided to add a letter prefix, probably an "A". But then someone suggested "V" since "V for Victory" was a popular slogan at the time. The "V" is not actually stamped as part of the serial number; it was stamped on all the frames before the numbering was done.
All the "Victory Models", regardless of destination or caliber were paid for by the U.S. and all were marked as U.S. Property. Calibers were intermixed in production; there was no "British range" or "U.S. range" as some have written.
Jim
The "Victory Model" came about because S&W's numbering machine only went to six digits. When production approached number 999999, they decided to add a letter prefix, probably an "A". But then someone suggested "V" since "V for Victory" was a popular slogan at the time. The "V" is not actually stamped as part of the serial number; it was stamped on all the frames before the numbering was done.
All the "Victory Models", regardless of destination or caliber were paid for by the U.S. and all were marked as U.S. Property. Calibers were intermixed in production; there was no "British range" or "U.S. range" as some have written.
Jim
Not during the war, and no one suggested they did. After model numbers WERE introduced 12 years later, The .38/200 variant was re-labeled the Model 11 to distinguish it from the .38 Special Military & Police. S&W's production of "British Service" revolvers didn't stop at WWII, actually.
No one has suggested they were so labeled on the gun, but this is the cartridge they were designed to chamber and was in widespread use in WWII, and up until 1963 according to some sources. It is a common way to distinguish the British-intended models from the U.S., just as "Victory" is a non-factory way to distinguish these from higher-finished commercial models. While the actual projectile was reduced from 200gr to (I think) 178gr, the projectile designation stayed on as a reference to the British military version of the .38 S&W. This is the common method of cartridge designation - the original technical reason for the cartridge name fades but the name sticks - thus the fact we have ".30-30," ".45-70," etc., yet the "30" and the "70" disappeared over a century ago. Same with .38/200. The "200" disappeared quickly, but the chambering name kept it. This should just not be that confusing.
Not all were. Neither of mine are, for example. You'll find quite a lot of examples in original condition w/o "U.S. Property" on them. The terms of the "lend lease" treaty and subsequent Congressional act were that the UK "paid" for them with treaty obligations of leasing UK western hemisphere military bases to the US; the US then acquired the hardware to fulfill it's half of the bargain and lent them to the UK and other approved dominion governments, per the terms of the "lend/lease" act. The buyer was the UK and empire dominions; the method was via a complicated legal arrangement. The US versions/model was not subject to this and, while sometimes, was not always stamped "US Property."
No one in this thread has suggested there was - perhaps you are referring to another source?
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