S&W 45ACP Wheelgun

[jski]

I just acquired a S&W 45ACP wheelgun with a 3” barrel. It’s not the “JM” signature gun but it is of recent vintage. The cylinder isn’t machined for a moonclip but the appears to be headspace to accommodate one.


Am I reading this correctly? There seems to be almost excessive headspace between the cylinder and the recoil shield?

BTW, is Smith still making the 45ACP wheelgun? Couldn’t find any on their website. Ruger is certainly making 45ACP wheelguns.

 

[NeroM]

What is the S&W model ?
Does a moon clip fit ?

 

[jski]

What is the S&W model ?
Does a moon clip fit ?

25-14
Haven’t tried a moonclip. Just got it. But would Smith offer a wheelgun chambered for 45ACP without machining the cylinder for moonclips while intending it be used with moonclips?

 

[Monac]

25-14
Haven’t tried a moonclip. Just got it. But would Smith offer a wheelgun chambered for 45ACP without machining the cylinder for moonclips while intending it be used with moonclips?

I don't understand the question. Were you thinking the 25-14 would have some kind of trick extractor, like a Charter Arms Pit Bull and therefore not be able to use any kind of clips without extra machining? Or do you mean that FULL moon clips require some different kind of machining than revolvers set up to use the original, WWI type of half-moon clips or Auto-rim ammunition? I have had two 45 ACP revolvers, a modern (post-lock) Smith and a Colt 1917. Both of them could use 1/3, 1/2, and full moon clips, and AR rounds, freely. Is there some new setup out there I have not heard of?

 

[cfullgraf]

Generally, the S&W 45 ACP revolvers are machined with a flat face on the breech of the cylinder but with enough space to allow for the use of moon clips.

Here is some pictures of a 25-2, another 45 ACP S&W revolver showing the cylinder breech face.
http://www.collectorssource.com/s-w-model-25-2.html

Here is an article about the S&W 610 (10mm auto) that shows the breech face of the cylinder, also without a cut out for moon clips. The 610 is designed to use moon clips as well as the 45 ACP Model 25's.
https://www.gunsandammo.com/editorial/smith-and-wesson-model-610-10mm-review/368156

 

[Pat Riot]

Interesting revolver. I didn’t know anything about this one until today. Super Cool!

Anyway, from what I could find in a quick search they DO use moon clips. (Had to edit for fumble fingers)

Here are 2 “sold” guns on internet sites that talk about / show moon clips:
https://www.gunauction.com/buy/11366194

https://www.gunsamerica.com/961544164/S-W-Model-25-14-45-ACP-3-Nickel.htm

 

[jski]

I don't understand the question. Were you thinking the 25-14 would have some kind of trick extractor, like a Charter Arms Pit Bull and therefore not be able to use any kind of clips without extra machining? Or do you mean that FULL moon clips require some different kind of machining than revolvers set up to use the original, WWI type of half-moon clips or Auto-rim ammunition? I have had two 45 ACP revolvers, a modern (post-lock) Smith and a Colt 1917. Both of them could use 1/3, 1/2, and full moon clips, and AR rounds, freely. Is there some new setup out there I have not heard of?

Doesn’t the “JM” signature 45ACP wheelgun come with a recess machined into the cylinder to allow the moonclip the seat flush with the cylinder head?

This is from Smith’s website:

Cylinder cut for moon clips (Moon Clips Included)

And yeah, I guess that’s what it boils down to: can this revolver be used with a moonclip and how thick of one?

 

[StrawHat]

I have S&W ACP revolvers that span a century of Models. All of them use the same moon clips. I get mine from Ranch Products, the original maker of the modern moon clip. There are more expensive clips available but none better.


You will want to acquire a couple of tools to help load and unload the clips. Many fancy tools are available on the market. A search will turn up those. I built a simple lever and post gadget to load the full moons. Was using it one day when my Pop stopped by. He saw what I was doing and went to my tool room. He came back with a large pair of waterpump pliers. Next the I know he is squeezing rounds two at a time into the clips. I modified the pluers by filing a half round to “hold” the rounds.

Removing the empties is also easy. The lowest tech form is a metal ammunition box. Brace the box solidly. Hook the cartridge in the corner of the box and pull straight away. The round pops loose from the clip and drops into the ammunition box.

Next easiest is a bit of tubing just big enough to slip over the case. Notch the end so it catches on the fingers of the moon clip. Place over the cartridge and twist to pop the round free.

You can probably buy stuff but with ammunition costs going up, making what you can will stretch the budget.

Some of my ACP revolvers.



Here is a neat machine used by the factory or arsenal to load the 1/2 moon clips.



Kevin

 

[AK103K]

Is that a newer model S&W? It looks like t has a "lock" on it. Also has what looks like more current grips, but, grips are grips, and easily swapped out. Whats the "dash" number in the yoke?

I wasnt aware Smith was making 25's in a snubby, which I think is really cool and would love to find one.

I have a 625 and a 1917, and as was mentioned, they use the same moon clips. Well, sorta anyway. My experience has been, youll only know when you try them. My 1917 seems to take any clip I put in it. The 25 seems to be more picky.

 

[cfullgraf]

I wasnt aware Smith was making 25's in a snubby, which I think is really cool and would love to find one.

I believe it is a Lew Horton special order production run.

 

[AK103K]

I was wondering if that might be the case. Guess Ill have to start looking around some more.

 

[243winxb]

Old Model 25 could be 45 colt , or 45acp. Yours looks like a newer model Colt? Measure the length of the chambers.

Mine fired acp brass with or without moon clips. No clip needed with 45 auto rim brass.

 

[PapaG]

There was no specific "machining' for moon clips. Not on mine, anyway.

 

[DR505]

Looks like it takes standard moon clips.

 

[mcb]

If it is chambered in a rimless cartridge then the cylinder face will be flat. If it is chambered in a rimmed cartridge and cut for moonclips it will have a recessed face to give clearance for the moonclip but still give you a surface to head space against in the absence of the moonclip.


S&W 625 chambered in a rimless cartridge, 45 ACP: Left: no moonclip notice the flat back face of the cylinder. The cartridge are head spacing on the case mouth just as they would in a semi-auto Right: with moonclip as you can see it sits on the fat face and you can properly head space a shorter cartridge, ie 45 GAP in a 45 ACP or 40S&W in a 10mm etc.


S&W 627 chambered in a rimmed cartridge, 357 Magnum: Left: no moonclip, notice that the cylinder is recessed the raised rim around the outside of the cylinder allows a cartridge to head space properly without the moonclip present. Right: with moonclip.

 

[Drail]

That cylinder is defintely designed for moon clips. It may or may not reliably fire rounds with no clip. Most newer guns will - some older 625s (stainless) will not. Only one way to find out.

 

[243winxb]

When the acp brass is chambered without a moon clip, the case mouth stops on the chamber.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

Very generally speaking, the distance between the rear of the cylinder and the frame on most S&W revolvers is about .060. This accommodates the rims of most cartridges. The counterbored cylinders will have less space because the rear of the cylinder will envelope the rims.

Starting with the Model 1917, in 1917, the spacing was increased in S&W revolvers chambered for the 45ACP cartridge to allow for the thickness of half moon clips. The spacing on these revolvers was about .090, to accomodate the extra thickness of the clips.

I do not have one of my 1917 Smiths handy right now, this Model 1955 Target left the factory in 1955. There are three 45ACP rounds and three 45 Auto Rim cartridges seated in the cylinder. As can be seen, without moon clips on them, the ACP rounds sit quite proud in the cylinder. All Smith and Wesson 45ACP revolvers that I am aware of can be fired without half moon clips as the rounds headspace on the front of the brass. If fired without clips, the empties have to be poked out with a stick because the extractor will not engage the rims.






Which is why the 45 Auto Rim cartridge was developed in the 1930s. The rim is approximately .090 thick, to take up all the space behind the cylinder, and the extractor can engage the rims of the cartridges to eject the empties. 45ACP ammo on the left, 45 Auto Rim on the right in this photo.






Several 45 caliber cartridges. Left to right, 45 Colt, 45 Schofield, 45 Cowboy Special, 45 Auto Rim, and 45 ACP.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

It may or may not reliably fire rounds with no clip. Most newer guns will - some older 625s (stainless) will not. Only one way to find out.

Every 45ACP Smith and Wesson revolver I own will fire 45 ACP without clips. This includes several Model 1917s and the above pictured Model 1955 Target. They are designed this way. Don't have a 625 so I cannot speak about that.

 

[Master Blaster]

I have 5 S&W .45 acp revolvers spanning 1932 to 2017. They all take moonclips and will fire with or without. None of them have any recess machined into the cylinder face. Rimmed rounds like .357, and .44 mag need a recess in the cylinder face to accommodate a moon clip like the 627 pc I own.

Semi auto .45 acp has no rim so the moon clip facilitates extraction. No recess needed for .45 acp.

 

[mcb]

OP I assume you bought that M25 used, look closely at the face of your cylinder you can see were the blueing has been worn away in small areas between charge holes where the outer edge of the stamped moonclips have rubbed. Very similar to, if lighter, than the marks on the cylinder of my own 625 I pictured in my first post in this thread. Get a bunch of moonclips and have fun!

 

[Tallball]

I have a 625, the stainless steel version.

Mine will shoot fine with moon clips.

It will also shoot fine without them. If I point it up and tap the butt, most of the empties fall out. The other one or two take just the flick of a fingernail. Loading and unloading moon clips is more work, IMHO.

Keep in mind, mine is just a range toy.

Smith And Wesson Model 625

• Tallball
• Apr 5, 2018

 

[Monac]

I think mcb has cleared this up, at least as far as what I was confused about. I had no idea S&W made a 45 ACP revolver like the 625 he illustrates. What is the point of that design? I am not sure I understand its function in the 357 Magnum 627 either, although I suspect the thin rim of 357 cartridges compared to 45 Auto Rim has something to do with it. Thanks!

 

[DocRock]

I have S&W ACP revolvers that span a century of Models. All of them use the same moon clips. I get mine from Ranch Products, the original maker of the modern moon clip. There are more expensive clips available but none better.


You will want to acquire a couple of tools to help load and unload the clips. Many fancy tools are available on the market. A search will turn up those. I built a simple lever and post gadget to load the full moons. Was using it one day when my Pop stopped by. He saw what I was doing and went to my tool room. He came back with a large pair of waterpump pliers. Next the I know he is squeezing rounds two at a time into the clips. I modified the pluers by filing a half round to “hold” the rounds.

Removing the empties is also easy. The lowest tech form is a metal ammunition box. Brace the box solidly. Hook the cartridge in the corner of the box and pull straight away. The round pops loose from the clip and drops into the ammunition box.

Next easiest is a bit of tubing just big enough to slip over the case. Notch the end so it catches on the fingers of the moon clip. Place over the cartridge and twist to pop the round free.

You can probably buy stuff but with ammunition costs going up, making what you can will stretch the budget.

Some of my ACP revolvers.

View attachment 968883

Here is a neat machine used by the factory or arsenal to load the 1/2 moon clips.

View attachment 968888

Kevin

Collection: awesome!

 

[hanno]

Moon clips worked fine but these days I just use Auto Rim brass for mine.