S&W 500 issue...

[Rodentman]

I have a problem with my 500 S&W reloads. Maybe the forum can help. Loads are for an 8.375” bbl S&W 500 revolver.

I have many years reloading experience although I would never call myself an expert. The 500 is not the first caliber I have tackled, it is the 17th. So I have a general idea what I am doing. I successfully have reloaded lots of 5.7 and .44 mag, .357 sig, and others. No issues there.

Wanting to start with light loads, and to keep costs down, I bought some 330g cast bullets from Dardas bullets. They offered two sizes, .502” and .503”. I bought the .502’s. I got some new Starline brass and also had some CBC brass that was given to me, used.

I bought a Redding carbide dieset and resized all the brass, new or used. I trimmed them as well with the Lee case gauge and lock stud in my power screwdriver. I chamfered and deburred the brass. After some issues with the Redding expander putting too much (and really the wrong shape) flare on the case mouths, I bougth a Lyman M resizer. I set it to flare to the absolute minimum to get the bullet base seated in the brass w/o shaving. Actually I had to spend a bit of time working the bullets in. I did that because when I flared the cases to seat the bullets easier the case would not enter the Redding crimp die!

I seated the bullets to the proper depth (after charging this particular load with 10.0g Trail Boss) using the Redding micrometer seating die which does not crimp. I then used the Redding crimp die to put a moderate crimp on the case mouths. All of the rounds would drop right into the 500’s cylinder except the CBC brass. All of the Starline brass, and the 1 Hornady brass I had dropped right in.

I know not all brass is the same. I can feel differences when I seat bullets, and resize, but I treated all this brass the same. So why would the CBC brass be larger to the point where I cannot chamber the rounds?

Someone smarter than I advised me to get a .50 AE crimp die and use that to taper the case. I DO reload .50 AE and tried this with an RCBS seat/crimp die, with limited success.

I think the bottom line is that the stinking bullets are too large at .502”. I won’t buy them again. But my questions are: What am I doing wrong, if anything? Why does CBC brass exhibit this behavior? What can I do about it, if I choose to continue to use the CBC brass? I have only about 20 of them and I have heard other people say not to use CBC, others say it’s ok.

FWIW I have had no issues with CBC brass with Speer 350g bullets, which I have fired with moderate loads of Lil Gun (33.5g), and H110 (40.0g).

I almost hate to say I wish there was a Lee FCD for this caliber, but it almost seems like I need full length resizing after loading.

Any advice is welcome. Thank you!

 

[NCsmitty]

Off the top of my head, is the CBC brass thicker than the Starline? If you are having issues with those cases, and it's not a whole bunch, toss them for recycling, it's your call.


NCsmitty

 

[gamestalker]

This is really interesting, and because I had something like that happen to me with some .357 or 44 mag., can't remember which, many years ago. I don't recall what brass did it, but in my opinion it was a combination of that particular brass and over belling of the mouth. What I think happened is, when you had the belling issue, which was over belled enough to prevent the case from fitting the crimp die, it displaced, or stretched the mouth and expanded the case mouth just enough to push a portion of the case body out when the bullet was seated and crimped.

I would bet that the brass that is causing the problem, is just because it may be slightly thicker or thinner than the other's used, and really not the cause at all, more of a consequence. In this respect, I would bet if you measure all your finshed cases, that you'll find that all the cases are experiencing a case diameter well above SAAMI spec. at just below the mouth.

 

[Strongbad]

Starline brass in my 500 slides in the chambers smoothly, there's no extra room in there at all. That tells me if that if your brass was even the slightest bit on the thick side you'd be screwed. The .502" bullets are exacerbating the problem I'm sure. I'd scrap that brass and stick to Hornady or Starline and then forget it ever happened.

 

[Hondo 60]

To be absolutely certain your rounds will chamber, how about removing the decapping pin & run 'em through the sizing die again.

This certainly isn't a long term solution, but one that will help immediately.

 

[56hawk]

All the cast bullets I load in my 500 are .502" diameter. I've never had a problem, but then I'm using Lee dies and Hornady cases. My guess is that the wall thickness is a bit too large on that brass. I would just get rid of them since you only have twenty anyway.

Also second running them back through the sizing die so you can shoot them.

 

[Rodentman]

Good idea to run the rounds thru the sizing die with the decapping pin removed. However, they wouldn't even enter the die! I DID manage to try this trick to good result running them partway into the .50 AE sizing die! They will now chamber. I thank everyone for the ideas.

The CBC brass will get tossed and I will stick with Starline. Actually there is a local fellow who wants the brass and he can have it.

 

[rcmodel]

First thing you need to do is measure some fired and resized brass before you expand it.

If the CBC brass is longer then the Starline brass?
You are buckling the cases imperceptibly by over-crimping them with the same die setting that works on the Starline..

The long cases get a more severe crimp then the short cases.

BTW: Running loaded rounds into a sizing die is a bad idea.
You are squeezing the bullets well undersize every time.

rc

 

[FROGO207]

Rather than toss the offending brass use them with jacketed bullets. They should work fine there. If you are worried about fit just load one as a test. I have never had that issue with any of the brass brands mentioned but I am reloading them for use in a NEF Handi Rifle. I also am betting that the CBC brass is thicker and that combined with a lead bullet is causing it to end up oversize.

 

[Strongbad]

I'm not sure how the Redding dies are set up but if they're like the RCBS dies, removing the stem from the resizing die does squat. The "ball" there is just to hold the decapper in place. The expansion is all done in the 2nd die and even then, it shouldn't be much.

 

[Rodentman]

Thanks for all the suggestions. RC-I trim all the brass so they should be the same length. I think the problem was the combination of the oversize bullets and the CBC brass. Starline brass works with the lead bullets and the CBC brass works fine with JHP Sierras. I won't load the lead bullets into CBC brass anymore. Problem eliminated.

 

[243winxb]

The "M" die i have experence with is the bottle neck 30 calibers, so this may be totally wrong? The 2 step die opens the case mouth larger than bullet diameter on the leading edge of the brass. When you roll crimp, this does not remove the expanded top part of the brass. The CBC brass would have to have thicker case walls. Try it without the "M" die, if possible. The second step expands the case mouth to bullet diameter or slightly over. Good Idea >

Someone smarter than I advised me to get a .50 AE crimp die and use that to taper the case. I DO reload .50 AE and tried this with an RCBS seat/crimp die, with limited success.