S&W 610 does not work well with Blazer .40 S&W

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Objekt

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Yesterday I had an odd experience at the range. My S&W 610 simply would not set off four cartridges of CCI Blazer .40 S&W (165 gr., aluminum case) ammunition. I tried them all three or four times, in both single and double-action mode, but they just would not ignite. I only shot about half a box of this ammunition in the 610, so that's a pretty high failure rate - 4 out of 20!

I've fired at least 1000 rounds of this same ammunition in my .40 S&W M&P without a single problem, so I'm wondering whether there's something wrong with the 610.

My 610 is one of the post-2007 models with the Hogue overmold grip. Yes, I checked the mainspring tensioner screw. It's locked in place, providing plenty of mainspring tension. I can't turn it with a screwdriver, probably because I put Loctite on it years ago to keep it from backing out. Yes, I'm using moon clips.

I was going to say I haven't had this issue with 10mm cartridges in the 610, either factory or my 10mm reloads, but I had a few of those that didn't go off on the first try either. However, they did go off on the second try. Also, there were fewer of them - 2 or 3 out of 100+ 10mm reloads - compared to the Blazer .40 S&W duds.

Any ideas?
 
In moon-clips, or just single loaded loose in the chambers?

Without clips, they have to headspace off the case mouths in the chambers.

Short cases, or soft cases without moon-clips to support them could be driven deeper into the chambers to the point the firing pin can't reach the primers fully.

rc
 
Try different moon clips, measuring for any difference.

If one is avoiding moon clips, how do they eject the spent cases? Why did they buy a gun designed for moon clips?
 
1. How did the primers look on the ones that fired versus the ones that did not fire? It could be that the firing pin nose is damaged.

2. When was the lock work last cleaned and lubricated. I had a similar problem with a used Model 64 I bought years ago. Cleaning and relubing the lnternal parts solved that problem.

3. Does the gun show excessive end shake?
 
Unless someone lightened the action, it shouldn't have trouble lighting off any factory ammo, including CCI-primed ammo.

I agree with the previous suggestions - give it a good & thorough internal cleaning and lubing first. Then try different moonclips. If that doesn't work, have a gunsmith look at it. It could be an endshake issue, a firing pin issue, or something else.
 
Too bad, apparently the OP does not have enough interest to provide more information.

Kevin
 
Wil Terry said:
IT IS A " HEADSPACE " PROBLEM caused by the rim thickness.
Click to expand...
I...what? You're going to have to clarify that one.

CCI Blazer is perfectly standard .40 S&W ammunition. It's worked perfectly for years in my S&W M&P pistol, and my ex shot hundreds of rounds of it in her Springfield XD-M without issue as well. I'm not even going to bother busting out the dial caliper - let's stipulate that the rim thickness is with in the allowable range.
 
New ammo

So I stopped by Wally World tonight and bought two 50-round boxes of factory .40 S&W ammunition to do a little experimenting this weekend.

One was good old Winchester white box, 180 gr. .40 S&W.

One was "Perfecta" brand, with a weird bullet weight (170 gr.) but brass cased and boxer-primed, even though it is apparently a Tulammo product (perhaps better-known for their steel-cased ammo).

I will shoot some or all of both boxes in the 610 this weekend and report back.

I will do likewise with some factory 10mm ammo, just for giggles. I expect that if there is a problem with lighting off factory .40 S&W, it should occur with factory 10mm as well.

I did call S&W about this yesterday. They gave the verbal equivalent of a shrug, and suggested I try some other brand of ammo, to see whether it made a difference. So, I shall.
 
IT IS A " HEADSPACE " PROBLEM caused by the rim thickness
Click to expand...
How can 'Rim Thickness' of a Rimless auto pistol round have anything to do with anything??

Headspace in a revolver is set by the rim on rimmed calibers.

But in auto pistol calibers like the OP is having problems with, it is set by the case mouth when fired without moon-clips.

Rim thickness has nothing to do with it.

rc
 
rcmodel said:
How can 'Rim Thickness' of a Rimless auto pistol round have anything to do with anything??

Headspace in a revolver is set by the rim on rimmed calibers.

But in auto pistol calibers like the OP is having problems with, it is set by the case mouth when fired without moon-clips.

Rim thickness has nothing to do with it.

rc
Click to expand...


RC, if he is firing 40S&W in the 10mm chamber it will be head spacing off the moon clip, not the case mouth. You can't fire 40 without the moon clips. If the extractor groove/rim thickness was off it could cause a headspace issue with the 40S&W.
 
I well understand that.

But neither caliber has a 'case rim' to headspace off of.

The rim thickness of either caliber locked in moon-clips would have to be off the charts too thin to cause mis-fires.

If the guns firing pin protrusion & cylinder end-shake are even close to right.

But the OP has yet to say if he was firing .40 in a 10mm revolver without using moon clips.
Or not?

rc
 
rcmodel said:
I well understand that.

But neither caliber has a 'case rim' to headspace off of.

The rim thickness of either caliber locked in moon-clips would have to be off the charts too thin to cause mis-fires.

If the guns firing pin protrusion & cylinder end-shake are even close to right.

But the OP has yet to say if he was firing .40 in a 10mm revolver without using moon clips.
Or not?

rc
Click to expand...

I did say. It's in my original post.

Other than that...yes. Headspace in a revolver is defined such that autorim thickness variations would have no effect.

Headspace is a blind alley. The relationship between the firing pin and primer is a lot more likely to have something to do with the problem.

The idea about the hammer not having the force that it should also seems worth exploring.
 
So, you are using moonclips and still having the problem. If it were me, I would consider the longer firing pin. Or trying different moonclips. I prefer the ones from Ranch Products in Malinta Ohio.

Kevin
 
I read the OP again and realized the duds would need to be reloaded and tried again, or we would be chasing shadows here. it could be the ammo, never mind how well it shoots in more forgiving guns.

Personally I have had to cull Blazer brass in some calibers as having case heads too thick to go on a shell holder in my Lee turret, whether a Hornady shell holder or Lee. The case heads (if the reader cannot allow the term "rim") could as easily be thin as thick, affecting the firing pin strike on the primer.
 
Last edited:
Most likely a gun problem. The OP does say in post #1 that he experienced misfires with 10mm as well. Only a few, but that's an indicator of a gun problem. So, clean and lube. If still a problem send to S&W.

Moonclip thickness varies but a little. The gun should be able to handle any variance.
 
rcmodel said:
I well understand that.

But neither caliber has a 'case rim' to headspace off of.

The rim thickness of either caliber locked in moon-clips would have to be off the charts too thin to cause mis-fires.

If the guns firing pin protrusion & cylinder end-shake are even close to right.

But the OP has yet to say if he was firing .40 in a 10mm revolver without using moon clips.
Or not?

rc
Click to expand...


A thin rim, or in this case too large of an extractor groove, would most certainly cause a headspace issue and could cause a misfire. It's not the likely solution but it's very much possible.

I've seen lots of brass cone from different companies with slightly different shapes in that area.
 
StrawHat said:
So, you are using moonclips and still having the problem. If it were me, I would consider the longer firing pin. Or trying different moonclips. I prefer the ones from Ranch Products in Malinta Ohio.

Kevin
Click to expand...
Funny thing about that...my moonclips are all Ranch brand, except for the ones that S&W supplied with the gun. Although, for all I know, S&W was using them as a supplier.
 
moonclip issue but don't over look the firing pin. I did have a firing pin in my 625 break. The tip of it broked off and you could not tell until you looked at it under a magnifying glass.
 
One of the regulars at our Saturday shoots is kind of an expert on revolvers, so I'll ask his opinion tomorrow. Planning to bring the gun and try some of the ammo I bought last night.
 
Revolver guy wasn't at the shoot, but I got some results and had a different gunsmith look at the gun. Full write-up later, but so far it looks like there was some gunk in the firing pin channel, and the firing pin needs to be replaced.
 
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