S&W 686 vs 686P

[Arch]

686 - 6 shot cylinder
686P or 686 Plus - 7 shot cylinder

This is an odd question, but can anyone who has fired both of these guns tell me any differenced they have noted other than the +1 capacity of the 686P. I am mostly interested in how the extra chamber affects the trigger pull on the 686P. Also is the cylinder on the 686P of the same dimensions as the 686? Are the frames identical...yeah what's different.

I ask as capacity is of no concen to me, so I just want the better gun.

Cheers.

 

[DragonFire]

The two guns are built on the same frame, so they are the same size. I don't have them in front of me, so I can't swear the two cylinders are identical in every way, but I believe they are.

Trigger pulls were about the same. One gun I shot had been used quite a bit more than the other, and its trigger pull was a little smoother.

I'm not sure if one is really a better gun over the other, but one thing to consider is that you're more limited to which speedloaders are available with the 7 shot model. I know HKS are available, but I don't think Safariland ones are.

 

[Arch]

Thanks for your reply.

I was thinking that the trigger pull on the 686P might be a little shorter, but I guess the flip side of that is, a shorter stage offering more resistance....if it is even an issue.

Speedloaders is one thing I didn't even think about, and that's somthing that would be a concern to me.

Thanks for that, looks like I will probably be sticking with the 6-shooter unless someone gives me a really good reason not to.

Cheers.

 

[Sprout]

The cylinder locks into place much sooner on the seven-shot gun, so the trigger pull is a bit different in that regard.

 

[GUNKWAZY]

When shooting DA the trigger pull is a little shorter, so it feels a little funky.

***The problem I kept having with the 686p was that I kept shooting 6 rounds and dumping 6 empties and a full round.
It's a hard habit to break if you're used to shooting a 6 shooter.
Keep that in mind.

Jeff (GUNKWAZY)

 

[Mastrogiacomo]

I've got a 4" plus and will be getting another 686 plus in a snubby. No problems with me and this model gun - I love having yet another shot.

 

[115grfmj]

686+ is an excellent gun...

I've got one, and I did try the standard 686 trigger. For me (and you'll get a lot of opinions) the plus trigger was better, smoother, lock time was faster,
reset shorter. Also I like having 7 rounds on tap, the HKS speedloaders work
very fast with some practice. It was really a personal decision, which is
how your going make yours (whatever feels best to you).


Also, and I'm not sure of the truth of this, but on the plus the bolt notch
rides between the charge holes, not over the charge holes like on the
6 shooter. The claim is that having the bolt notch over the charge hole
is the weak point of a six shot cylinder, and that the plus design is stronger.



Heres mine.

 

[TonyT]

You can have the cylinder of the 686P adapted to use moon clips. Ranch Products is the original manufacturer of the 7 shot moon clips for the 686.
Tony

 

[Arch]

Thanks for all the replys guys.

Yup, it's still a hard decision, and like 115grfmj pointed out, a purely personal one in this instance. So I think that I will try to fire both guns, and see which trigger pull I like better. As for getting in the habbit of reloading after 6 rounds, fortunatly the only other revolver I have had alot of experience with, is a 10 shot S&W 617, so hopefully I wont be clicking on fired chambers and then emptying

One two other questions though, does the faster lock time on the 686P add any weight to the pull, or is it negligble? And does anyone know if the hammer and trigger on current offerings are still MIM parts?

115grfmj, damn nice gun, and good photography too. I see yours is still quite new, with the angled back cylinder release, and politically motivated internal locking device.

Cheers fellas.

 

[115grfmj]

Thanks for the compliment

It is 9 months old, it's a 686-6. It does have the MIM trigger, and hammer, and yes it has the new lock. These are truly non-issues, but very hotly debated. As for the trigger, it is no heavier than the 6 shooter. The 686
series are arguably the finest full size combat magnums available to the
shooting public. Get one you'll never regret it.

 

[DHart]

Seven shot 686.... nah, too many bullets, too hard to remember how many bullets you're working with.... why bother?

The different in trigger pull isn't much, not much more that the difference in trigger pulls between any two different S&Ws... every one I have (a couple dozen or so) has a different trigger pull! And I have no issues with remembering what gun I'm firing. I shoot a lot of different guns, 5-shots, 6-shots, 7-shots, 1911's, Hi-Powers... and I don't find it difficult to know what I shooting at the moment. I guess it doesn't hurt to be thinking at least a little bit when shooting! ;-)~

I like the seven shot capacity and the cylinder notch not being over the charge hole, and the quicker lock up, but all in all, none of that really seems to make much difference in using the gun. The real difference that is significant is that you have one more round capacity and I think that's a REAL plus!

As I see it, there is no reason whatsoever NOT to buy a Plus... there is no downside, only the benefit of 7 shots instead of 6. The gun is the same shape and size, the cylinder is the same size, just a slight bit lighter, I would guess... not that you'd notice or anything.

 

[Bullet]

I thought I read somewhere (with the 7 shot) that there were issues with timing, but I'm not sure if this is right. I didn't pay much attention since my 686 is a 6 shot.

 

[DHart]

Both of mine time better than (well before) any six shooter I have.... the cylinder stop is into full lock up quite well before the hammer is even approaching the limit of it's rearward travel. On most six shooters, lock up tends to happen just before the sear lets go of the hammer, whereas on the 7-shooters, lock up is significantly well before hammer fall. And of course with any recent manufacture S&W (since 1979, I believe) the company stands totally behind the guns.... up to and including paying for shipping. The only S&W's I've had any timing problems with (and I've had a few with timing issues) were six-shooters. No timing issues at all with my 7-shooters.

 

[Malamute]

This discussion has come up on the smith-wessonforum a couple of times. The consensus is that the 7 shooter hand/cylinder ratchet wears sooner and go out of time faster than a comparable 6 shooter. Some individual guns may last longer from either that 6 or 7 shot camp. It's hard to make a rule based on a small number of guns or anecdotal experiences.

I believe the internal parts are the same other than the hand. Trigger stroke length will be that same, tho they will feel different because of the differnt lockup timing. Hammer fall is the same.

You can send in a 6 shot 686 and Smith will make it a 7 shooter. I've called and asked.

I've had both, I sold the 7 shooter because I didn't like the round butt frame. They are fine guns, I just didn't want the extra round bad enough to put up with a frame style I didn't like. I have a blue 586 now that I like tons better than the 7 shooter, but that has to do with the fact that it's blue, rather than stainless, and is a square butt frame. Now if they built a blue 7 shooter on a square butt frame with..............

 

[Hutch]

A seven shot revolver is the work of the devil It doesn't look right, either. I have a bit of reservation about the half-dozen or so 5-shot revolvers I own, but a Chief's is SUPPOSED to look like that. The 686 ISN'T. And that's enough for me.

 

[DHart]

Malamute... since S&W is making a new 7-shot 586, you could have your 586 converted to a 7-shot if you so desired! I agree with you on the 586's... they're just sublime revolvers. And I'd love to have one of my three (two no-dashes and one dash-5) converted to a 7-shot... I think they look really cool! Now that you mentioned this, I may send my dash-5 off to become a 7-shot... thanks for mentioning that S&W can do the conversion.

As regards the round butt, I too prefer a square butt on the heavier L-frame guns, but remember, the round-to-square conversion grips are wonderful in making that conversion... I use them on a number of my round butt guns, including these two:

 

[Malamute]

I didn't know Smith was making a 586 7 shooter. That's interesting.

On further thought tho, I'd be relunctant do this. I'm not a real big fan of the 357 caliber. I rather like my model 24 and 29, as they don't have the sharp muzzle blast to deal with that the 357 produces, and have a lot more horsepower available if wanted. I mostly shoot 38 spl's in my 357's when I do shoot them. I shoot the 44's much more, and if serious work, defensive or animals wise, is in the picture, the 44's are what I reach for. Being in grizzly country, I tend toward the larger caliber guns in general.

I like the factory target grips, but work them down, taking off the square feeling edges so they feel like the nice target grips from the 50's and 60's.

 

[DHart]

Malamute... I love the big bores myself... but I guess I just love the full range of S&W revolvers in .38 spl, .357 mag., .44, and .45 Colt. I have a 3" 696, a 3" 629, and a 3" 625, but now I'm especially yearning to add a 4" 25 and a 4" 29.

 

[Malamute]

DHart, I guess I'd agree about liking most of the Smiths, just don't like the noise level of 357 loads. My favorite Smiths of all time have to be the K-22 and the 4" 29. The 4" 24 is a close follower, but it isn't as flexible as the 29 load wise.

 

[DHart]

Ah yes, the 4" 29 is the one I am most eager to find at present. I do have quite a few Smiths chambered in .357, but the bulk of my shooting with them is with "lite" .357 loads which I find much more enjoyable than the full house stuff. Which engineering version of the 29 do you have and how do you like it?

 

[Malamute]

Mine is a -2. A pinned and recessed gun. I bought it new in '81. It's the first gun I bought new after turning 21. I carried it a lot for a number of years. Killed a deer, several coyotes, a few squirrels, and a bunch of rabbits with it. I've slept many many a night in the hills with it under the pillow. I guess I like it OK

I've shot mostly 9 grs Unique with a 250 gr Keith bullet, or later when I quit casting, whatever decent commercial version of SWC I could find.

 

[DHart]

Any idea what velocity you get from the 250 over 9 combo with the 4" barrel?

 

[Master Blaster]

I have a 1999 686+ 4 inch, and a 2005 686 6".
My 1999 686+ with 8,000+ rounds has about the same trigger pull single and double action as my 2005 686. Blindfolded I would be hard pressed to tell the difference, even though the round count difference is substantial. I like them both, accuracy is excellent on both.

Thet being said. The 686+ is developing marginal timing on one cylinder, you can get it to not lock up on that one cylinder if you cock the hammer very slowly, if you cock it normally or fire it double action its fine. All the rest lock up fine. There is a significant difference in the appearance of the ratchet. The 686+ ratchet has much smaller teeth like 1/5 the contact area of the 686. The 686+ will definately go out of time faster than the 686 due to their being less wear surface on the ratchet where it contacts the hand.
The other difference is the thickness of the cylinder walls, I would not try to hotrod handloads in the 686+, but I dont do that anyway. The 686+ has a slightly muzzle heavier feel because the cylinder is lighter.

They are both excellent guns, but if I had to do it over I would skip the + and just stick to 6 shooters. But I dont carry either of them for SD, so if I did the + would be my choice due to the advantage of the extra shot.

For a range / hiking gun I would stick with the 6 shot versions.

JMHO YMMV

 

[Malamute]

DHart, I've never chrono'ed them, but was intending 1000fps. Judging from the comments of others, and the few loads of mine that I have chorno'ed, it should be close if not a little bit higher than 1000fps.

This load shoots noticably flatter out in the open than spl loads, but nowhere near as much blast and recoil as full power mag loads.


What M-B wrote above reflects the comments I read on smith-wessonforum regarding the ratchet/timing on the + guns. I'm happy with my 6 shooter 586 for a fun gun that may get some use as a small game gun and some fun matches for IDPA etc. I believe some matches don't allow the full 7 rounds in revolver class, so the extra round isn't an advantage in that case. And as M-B says, IF it was my s-d gun, the 7th round wound be nice, but the 44 gets that duty.

 

[Arch]

Masterblaster,
Thanks for that, you pretty much got all of my worries about a 686+ in one hit, and from this I tend to agree and will probably stick to the 6 rounder, as this is just a range gun. The meat between the cylinders was something I was wondering about, and well safety first.

Also malumute, yup good call, IPSC revolver divison only allows you to load 6 rounds at a time. So whilst I am not into it now, I would always like the option, and it would probably be fastest with a 6 shooter. So cheers for mentioning that.

I guess the other thing is I like the classic feel of a revolver too, so I may as well be traditional and have at least one "6 shooter". 10 shooter, or 7 shooter usually gets funny looks....