S&W Autoloaders - Which Is Best ?

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So, you throw judgment about guns based on things you do not and should not have to do. Got it.

Can we agree that a simple takedown procedure is better than a complex one?

Regardless of how often you feel you should clean your extractor groove and striker/firing pin channel, its gotta be done EVENTUALLY. If your gun is a huge PITA to detail strip, you're not gonna be doing it. If your gun strips down very easily, you're going to do it more often and you'll have a cleaner, better maintained gun.

I find that engineers that REALLY care don't simply build a great product. They put extra thought into how the owner will maintain the thing. And that's kinda my whole point. It just doesn't feel like SW's heart is in the game anymore (at least with autos). Compare the beloved third gens to an M&P and you'll see what I mean.
 
Can we agree that a simple takedown procedure is better than a complex one?
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Yes, I can agree with that.

What I do not agree with is the notion that a gun sucks if it is not easy as Glock.

I can take the whole firing mechanism out of the frame insert of a SIG P250 without any tools or punching pins out. You cannot do that with a Glock, but I do not go around throwing nonsense like "Glock sucks. Trigger mechanism cleaning is not as easy as P250" do I?

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It just doesn't feel like SW's heart is in the game anymore (at least with autos). Compare the beloved third gens to an M&P and you'll see what I mean.

Look. S&W 3rd genrations are great pistols FOR THEIR TYPE.

But, to say it is better than M&P is purely subjective.

Objective performance wise, there are world instructors who use S&W pistols. People such as Bill Rogers. There are also people who compete on national level with S&W pistols.

Guess which S&W they have in their hands. Here's a hint: Not a S&W 3rd generation.

I'll take an M&P over a 3rd Generation anytime.
 
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What I do not agree with is the notion that a gun sucks if it is not easy as Glock.

I can take the whole firing mechanism out of the frame insert of a SIG P250 without any tools or punching pins out. You cannot do that with a Glock, but I do not go around throwing nonsense like "Glock sucks. Trigger mechanism cleaning is not as easy as P250" do I?

I have no idea what kinda nonsense you throw around.

I didn't say the M&P sucks, I said there are things about it that suck.
 
Supposedly the 952 performance center is the most accurate of all the S&W autoloaders. I don't know, never got to shoot one, but I do have a 5906TSW that I really like and its accurate enough for defense purposes.

I don't know if it is the most accurate but it is accurate. Perfect trigger that breaks right @ 2.5 lbs from the factory, excellent sights and just a feeling of quality when you pick it up. The target on the left was 10 shots w/two hands standing at 25 yards and the one on the right is 10-shots, one hand @ 50 yards.

9mm115Tgt2-A_zpsc7160316.jpg 952-50ydtgt-1_zps0442d0a4.jpg
 
Best S&W ?

I found a S&W Model 469 at a reasonable price. It is at least 25 years old, and has a magazine disconnect (which I don't like). Is this a good viable model, and can the mag disconnect be deactivated? Is this a DA/SA model, or DAO (which I don't like) ? Any opinions appreciated . :)
 
No doubt the Model 41 is top notch. Have a couple of old ones.
Also have a 5967 9mm and a 4505. They have never malfunctioned and shoot tight groups. Really great guns.
 
I kinda like my sigma .40.have over 1200 rds.through it and not a single jam or ftf.Eats every kind of ammo i stick in it.I know a lot of people dont like the sigma for some reason,but I have had nothing but good luck with mine.I would suggest a wolff spring kit for the trigger.not saying I think its the best s and w makes,i havent owned all thier models.just the sigma and my 22a,i really like them both.
 
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I have a mod 4553tsw. It is a dao gun with a stainless slide and as aluminum frame. I've never had a problem with it. Shoots everything, ejects and chambers smoothly. I just need to practice more!

Mark
 
I think their M&P line is their best ever.

Better than Glock.

I've had their steel versions; never been a fan (4006)
 
one on the right is 10-shots, one hand @ 50 yards.

Fine shooting sir! Match ammo or bulk stuff? My Baer 1.5" won't shoot them that well at 50....or maybe its me. :)
 
Match ammo or bulk stuff?

Actually more dumb luck than anything else. I had these 115 lead SWC bullets from a local caster, Penn, laying around and I started playing with them. I bought the bullets some years ago thinking they would cut a better hole in the paper and maybe give you that close point in a match but I never really did much with them for a long time. I came across a load that the Smith really likes, 4.5 of Power Pistol and the 115. It is VERY length sensitive but hit it right and the bugger shoots lights out. The target below was shot @ 25 yards with the bullet set 0.035" shorter. This is the same load as the other post except the seating depth was changed. You can see the accuracy just falls off. 9mms are fun but I always had to work harder to get the kind of accuracy a 45 Auto gets you with just a little effort.

9mm115Tgt1-A_zps3b596f96.jpg
 
The S&W autos or a few years ago are astounding deals. Plastic pistols are taking over, and they're all exceedingly reliable and portable; however, the S&W autos are for people who want reliability and fine workmanship. The first gun I wanted more than just about anything was the Model 59, which was capable of holding an astounding 15 rounds. But the first iterations of the gun tended to chronically jam. One magazine actually gave higher marks to the Raven .25acp because it jammed less!

SW317_3906_1.gif

Two of my favorite guns, the S&W 3906 9mm and 317 .22lr 8-shot. I got both as part of a trade and the first thing I was going to do is ditch the revolver. After about a week, it went from one of my least favorite revolvers to one of my favorite. S&W makes great guns, and I think their autos were horribly underrated.

SW6595906_a.gif

The S&W 5906 (top), and 659, both of which take 15 rounds of 9mm.

SW457_2.gif

The S&W 457 .45acp pistol is a bit boxy and ugly, but it's reliable.

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S&W 5906 9mm and 645 .45acp, an outstanding double-action that is a bit heavy, but super reliable. Factory reps would demonstrate how the 645 would feed empty (sized) shell casings into the chamber!

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The 659 is my favorite 9mm pistol. Here it's shown with a 20-round clip. The 5906, its successor, was more ergonomic, it's said, but I always liked the 659 better.

SW645.gif

S&W 645 is a DA version of the 1911, but like many 1911s, it didn't jam. It is, however, a bit heavy for everyday carry. As a drawer gun, it's almost perfect.


With the increases in the cost of materials and labor, I think all of these guns would be prohibitively expensive to produce today. The 457, of all the guns above, is the most pedestrian, but the balance and weight make it a nice gun to pack away in a bugout bag.

About two years ago, I took a course in handgun shooting with my sister. She picked a beautiful Taurus .357 blued revolver. I chose a butt ugly Glock 9mm because I'd never fired one before. And though I shot it well and it never jammed, it was like using a hammer or a screwdriver or any other tool. It's just like a knife. You can get one that has character and beauty that you can pass on to your kids and grandkids. Or you can go into the kitchen, open a drawer and pick up one of the cheapos.

The S&W guns have gorgeous fit and finish. To bring them out of the safe and admire the workmanship is a great And if they're stainless, their finish will hold up that much better.
 
While you could not GIVE me a handgun presently made by the current company calling itself S&W, I own many 3rd gen S&W pistols. I have bet my life on them for years. I can't praise any pistol more than that.

Quality, craftsmanship, reliability and asthetics for bargain prices.....well....until lately. It seems the secret is out going by some of the prices I'm seeing on the auction boards.

Great triggers right out of the box with no need to waste money on aftermarket parts to give your gun the trigger it should have come from the factory with. :)

The Performance Center semi auto's were very nice back in the day. My PC 45 CQB's would be worth a fortune if they ever appeared on the cover of a gunrag. Excellent bullseye pistols or duty guns.

The 3913 is probably the finest concealed carry single stack 9mm made by anyone.

My 4506-1's are as accurate as my Colt Gold Cup and Kimber Stainless Target II.

My PC Shorty 45 is the most accurate 45 semi auto I have ever fired. I carry a standard production 4513TSW to keep the wear and tear off my Shorty 45.

Accurate, bet your life reliable and good looking while doing all that. Whats not to like?

Hopefully, someday S&W will be bought out by a gun company and make nice guns like these 3rd gen pistols again. :)
 
If Smith & Wesson tried to make all steel autos today, they most likely would cost close to a grand. Many 1911s today need work right out of the box, and we all know how much they start at. I've seen people with Kimbers at ranges and have been stunned to see them jam on occasion. I know how much Kimbers go for and yet I've seen guys clearing them with no apparent concern. They didn't jam every other round, naturally, but in our day and age, seeing expensive guns like Kimbers jamming, even once in a blue moon, is disconcerting. I can't remember my 659 or 645 ever jamming. Ditto for my Taurus PT-92. Modern designs seem to be stunningly reliable. The first S&W 39/59s were known for jamming more than they shot. When the 459/559s came out, I wasn't optimistic. They looked almost exactly the same. What could S&W have possibly done to make them work?

I don't know, but work they did. In government trials, the 459 excelled, malfunctioning only once in an average of 952 rounds. The Beretta, the other winner, malfunctioned only once in an average of 2,000 rounds, and the testers concluded the absence of an ejection port was what gave the Beretta its amazing reliability. Unfortunately, the Berettas began spontaneously failing after about 5,000 rounds. Slides were examined with sophisticated electron microscopes and testers searched for micro fractures to see if they could predict failures. They couldn't do it. There was absolutely no way they could ever ascertain, in advance, which pistols would fail.

My first S&W auto was a 559 blued 9mm and it was a bit heavy, but very well built. And though it was the spitting image of the 59, this thing would feed and shoot just about everything I put into it. To this day S&W autos are just as impressive as many of its nice revolvers.

SW659_b.gif

This 659 was my second pistol. Stainless steel and 15 rounds, and this was in a time when many auto makers were still recommending round nose ammo.
 
Tuj: one thing about the 5906; if you get mec-gar mags, they hold 17.
The magazine also fits the 659 and, I think, the same company makes a 20-round model. Good luck in finding any, though. In Maryland, lawmakers see 15-, 17- and 20-round magazine possession as evidence of intent to commit crimes. They say you don't need them for defense or target shooting, so if you're caught with one, they presume you must be guilty of being up to no good.

Water-Man: All things considered, Glock & M&P are the best 45s on the market today IMO.

Kitchen knives also make for some of the best defensive knives available. Yet most knife collectors don't invest in many. Or carry them. I like Glocks. They make for great defense pistols; however, they're about as interesting as a hammer or kitchen knife.

I don't pick up a gun magazine and say, "Hey, that's a beautiful Glock!" But I can admire a beautiful blued steel or stainless steel handgun like a S&W 66 .357 revolver. They say that the great warrior Achilles was sent to a girl's school so he wouldn't be forced to fight in Troy. The great tactician Odysseus, however, being tipped off about this, arranged a bazaar. On the other tables were beads, oils, perfumes and such, but on one table his men featured swords, bucklers, shields and other implements of war. When one of the "girls" walked over to the table with weapons on it and began admiring them, Odysseus had him seized and thus Achilles was inducted into the Greek army!

Many men have long admired the beauty and craftsmanship of armor and weapons, but Glocks and these other plastic, square, boxy looking pistols that have been frozen, thrown out of helicopters, put in mud and undergone all sorts of abuse and still work, while technological wonders, aren't very pleasing to the eye.
 
I found a S&W Model 469 at a reasonable price. It is at least 25 years old, and has a magazine disconnect (which I don't like). Is this a good viable model, and can the mag disconnect be deactivated? Is this a DA/SA model, or DAO (which I don't like) ? Any opinions appreciated . :)
I love my 469. It is DA/SA, and the mag disconnect can be deactivated. I left it alone on mine, though.

What sort of deal did you get on yours?
 
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