S&W closes shooting center after felon takes target practice there

Status
Not open for further replies.

Trebor

Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2003
Messages
4,817
Here's some links to a couple articles about felons who illegally rented guns at the S&W Shooting Sports Center and who were then arrested on "Felon in possession" charges.

S&W has temporarily closed the Shooting Sports Center, probably as a result of the bad press.

I just posted these because some people still think it's OK for a felon to rent, borrow, or shoot guns because they think the felon isn't "in possession" of the gun as long as it's only rented or borrowed. This shows that is incorrect and poses legal risk to the felon and possibly the one who provided him with the firearm (especially if they know he's a felon).

As private citizen gun owners, we are limited in our ability to know about someone else's criminal history. We can't do NICS checks, etc, before letting someone shoot our guns. But, if you happen to know that someone is a felon, or is disqualified from possessing firearms for some other reason, you should not let them shoot or handle your firearms. If you do so you are placing both of you in legal risk.

If you are an instructor who provides loaner firearms to students going through the standard questions off a 4473 might not be a bad idea before supplying firearms.

Here's the really relevant part from the first article;

http://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2012/05/court_documents_manuel_lora_ch.html
"Because Lora had been convicted on a drug charge in August 2007 that was punishable by more than a year in prison, his afternoon at the range triggered a charge of being a felon in possession of a firearm. He was snared along with 12 other suspects — including his two shooting partners — in an October 6 sweep by federal, state and local law enforcement agencies, including the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms.

Kakley’s affidavit cites a liability waiver and a range sign-in form as evidence of Lora’s presence at the Smith & Wesson facility. The affidavit also describes video footage from the range that allegedly shows Lora firing a .40 caliber pistol.

Later during that session, the affidavit reads, the video shows Lora returning to the front desk to obtain a silhouette target and to rent a 9mm pistol. After receiving the pistol and two boxes of ammunition at the range window, Kakley wrote, “Lora then occupied the firing lane, loaded the 9mm pistol, and began firing. Over the next approximately twenty minutes, Lora intermittently and repeatedly fired the 9 mm pistol.”

And the article concerning S&W closing the shooting center.

http://www.masslive.com/business-news/index.ssf/2012/05/smith_wesson_shooting_sports_center_temp.html
 
From the second article:

Because Lora had been convicted on a drug charge in August 2007 that was punishable by more than a year in prison, his afternoon at the range triggered a charge of being a felon in possession of a firearm. He was snared along with 12 other suspects — including his two shooting partners — in an Oct. 6 sweep by federal, state and local law enforcement agencies, including the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms.

Lora is one of the three people charged in the Aug. 23, 2011 slaying of Jonathan Tallaj, 25. Tallaj, who worked as a nursing assistant, was shot outside his Wilmont Street home around 10:30 p.m. Priscilla Texidor, 21, and her 18-year-old brother, James Texidor, also were charged in the Tallaj case. The Texadors were not shooting with Lora at the Smith & Wesson range.

So Lora was target practicing in May of 2011, then was charged in an August 2011 homicide.

One has to wonder how the ATF discovered that 15 allegedly pohibited persons happened to patronize that particular S&W shooting range.
 
I don't understand. Did Smith and Wesson KNOWINGLY rent a pistol to a fellon?
Is there anyway for them to know other than to ask? And if they ask what if he lied?
 
I doubt they knowingly rented. Notice that they weren't shut down by the ATF or anything. They voluntarily closed, probably due to the bad publicity of renting a gun to someone who was a felon and was later charged with murder.
 
As I understand it, it is not illegal to sell, rent or lend a gun to a convicted fellon unless you KNOW he is a convicted fellon. Is there some law requiring you to ask? That is not the sort of thing most people will tell you if you don't ask, and even if you do you have no way to know if they are telling the truth.
 
My main point was some people (even on this forum) have thought it was OK to loan a gun to a felon or for a felon to rent a gun because they dindn't think the "felon in possession" rule applied as it wasn't a permament transfer.

I just wanted to show that the ATF and local agencies will pursue this and charge the felon if they find out.

So, if you have a felony, stay away from guns and if you KNOW someone is a felon (or have a good reason to suspect) don't loan them your guns.

And, your right, you don't really have a way to check, other than to ask. And, I think you aren't very likely to get into trouble if you had no clue the person you let shoot your gun at the range was a felon, but if you know, that's another story.
 
Is it even legal to rent a firearm to someone in MA who does not have a pistol permit?
 
My local range is owned by NYS and they collect and analyze information that is collected every time you shoot. This includes, name, address, telephone, permit numbers, date, time, gun that is shot, range that is used, time of payment, etc.

They collect the data and run it through a computer to determine if any felons or other persons of interest are using the range.
 
As I understand it, it is not illegal to sell, rent or lend a gun to a convicted fellon unless you KNOW he is a convicted fellon. Is there some law requiring you to ask?

Intentional ignorance is a VERY thin defense if any at all.
 
Owen Sparks said:
As I understand it, it is not illegal to sell, rent or lend a gun to a convicted fellon unless you KNOW he is a convicted fellon....
Not exactly. It's illegal to sell, rent, lend or give access to a gun to a person one knows or has reasonable cause to believe is a prohibited person (18 USC 922(d)). What might constitute "reasonable cause to believe" will depend on circumstances.
 
No opinion needed. From the OP's second linked article :

[Smith & Wesson vice president for investor relations Elizabeth A.] Sharp wrote that all visitors to the Shooting Sports Center are asked to provide legal identification and must attest that they comply with all state and federal laws regarding the possession and operation of a firearm.
 
That should totally exculpate S&W. If they ask and you lie that absolves them from any responsibility.
 
Oh, I think that will be decided by the appropriate legal authorities and not the Internet.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top