S&W Governor - a home defense option?

[rbernie]

Those of you who are saying get a .45 COLT revolver, can you give me a model to look into?

If you want a 45 Colt DA-capable revolver, you're looking at a S&W 25/625 or a Ruger SRH or a Governor or a Judge. Ruger did make a Redhawk in 45 Colt but they're pretty dang hard to find.

Other than more conventional looks, none of these other choices offer capacity or capability improvements over the Governor. The traditional N Frames are prettier, but between them and the Governor I can find no performance differences. I have both 625s, 25s, and a Governor - my opinions are earned.

Oh, and the Governor can use shoot both 45ACP and 45 Colt. I've never tried that with my N Frames and I dunno how that'd work out.

 

[tomrkba]

Just say "NO!" to stupid guns! If you're going to have a double action revolver in 45 Colt, then do it right. The whole 410 thing is just silly because it does not perform well.

I would think at close range the possible damage would be a huge deterrent for a bad guy.

As caused by 357 Magnum, 45 ACP, 44 Special, 45 Colt, 44 Magnum and so forth. 410? Not so much, though nobody wants to be shot with anything. This is bad thinking based upon marketing!!

 

[The Good]

"I think a governor would be pretty fair but I just don't trust the shotshell offerings vs/ a nice .45 colt JHP or even better some .45 ACP loaded in moon clips! YEAH!!!! That would be ideal.

The shotshells seem kind of gimmicky. Not even the buckshot seems to get adequate penetration in most of the loads I've seen. Just not enough velocity out of that short barrel. You can pretty much look at the velocity figures on the side of a box of .410 buckshot and cut that number in half. But six round of .45 ACP in moon clips fired out of a quality S&W is a beautiful thing to be sure.

However you could always just get a Model 625 "

First, thank you for offering me another option to check out. I think a lot of people assume I've seen every gun and have decided to ignore them all and check out the governor. Not true! I want a nice powerful revolver and right now the only thing I'm even close to sure of is that I want it to be a Smith and Wesson. That might even change.

You're the first guy who seems to like the .45 ACP option better than .45 colt. I'd love to hear your reasons for that. i dont know enough to have a preference.

I thought the .410 thing seemed gimmicky at first too, and it pretty much was at first, but I feel like that's kind of changed now that there are loads like the Federal Personal Defense Buckshot. Everything I've read about this round seems like the exact opposite of what I've heard about every other .410 round.

"Other than more conventional looks, none of these other choices offer capacity or capability improvements over the Governor. The traditional N Frames are prettier, but between them and the Governor I can find no performance differences. I have both 625s, 25s, and a Governor - my opinions are earned. "

Good to hear from you. I'm definitely gonna look into those. Are you saying that the only difference you can find in the guns beyond the governor shooting additional types of bullets is the appearance of the guns? In other words you feel there's no difference in quality or accuracy? I'm asking this question as a regular guy with plenty of firearms experience but not a professional shooter or expert gun handler. My questions about accuracy aren't scientific. I'm not good enough a shooter to care if one of these guns groups a quarter of a centimeter wider at 100 yards.

"Just say "NO!" to stupid guns! If you're going to have a double action revolver in 45 Colt, then do it right. The whole 410 thing is just silly because it does not perform well."
I tried to be nice in the post where I asked for no more of these useless comments. This doesn't help me in any way. It contains no information. Additionally, I don't know how a gun can be "stupid". Any why is the whole .410 thing silly? I don't see anything silly about considering a firearm that's been given many positive reviews and can fire three different types of ammunition, two of which have been proven as effective self defense rounds, and one additional that is still up for debate. Even if I didn't like the .410, I'd still be wondering about this gun because it may be highly effective as a .45 acp or .45 colt. The price is really not bad at all

 

[Manny]

I'm glad you posted on this, it caused me to do a fair amount of research on the internet to become more knowledgeable on the Governor, .410 handguns in general and the performance of various loads out of rhe short barreled handguns. I came away very impressed with the governor and the capabilities of at least some defensive loads in it.

In reading a number of reviews they were all favorable as to the quality and excellent performance of the S&W Governor gun. When used as a conventional handguns with .45acp & .45 Colt ammo it works and shoots very well and with complete reliability. It's when going to shotgun shells that some issues with performance and/or reliability may arise. However most quality shotshells worked well in the reviews I read, some exceptionally well.

The bottom line I get from the research I've done and in reading some very knowledgable reviewers such as Dave Workman & Jeff Quinn is that the Governor is a very effective defensive revolver and has a lot of versitility with its ability to digest such a wide variety of loadings. It is not a gimmick, it's a quality weapon that is somewhat off the the "normal" curve, but it can offer some very nice positives because of that difference.

For myself, I could see it as a very effective home defense gun and a nice trail companion. My choice of a load in that role would be Federals 000 buckshot load which has excellent reviews. Looking at gel tests of the performance of that federal load I'd feel quite well protected against both two and four legged vermin within typical defensive ranges. I'd also keep a few #6 or 7.5 shot shells handy for rats & such if need be. Using shotshell rounds, even buckshot would lessen the potential for over-penetration in my urban area, a good thing, as Martha Stewart might say......

 

[rbernie]

Are you saying that the only difference you can find in the guns beyond the governor shooting additional types of bullets is the appearance of the guns? In other words you feel there's no difference in quality or accuracy?

There is no measurable difference in quality or accuracy from my late-model 25 Mountain Gun or 625 Mountain Gun in 45 Colt and my Governor, shooting the same loads and viewed with the same critical eye. In fact, I would hazard to say that the sights on the Governor are more useful out of the box for SD/HD use, while availability of holsters currently favors the 25/625.

 

[HexHead]

If I were going to get one, I'd opt for the S&W version.
Simply because the Judge is 45 Colt/410
Whereas the Governor is 45ACP/45COLT/410

And .45GAP! You never know what you're going to be able to find in an ammo crisis.

 

[ljnowell]

If you are thinking about shooting 410 out of it, do read up on the subjuct.
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot41.htm. 45 colt or 45 ACP would be better choices. As far as I'm concerned, S&W released the governor as a "Me too" entry into a niche market created by Taurus. Even giving it an uncharactoristicly S&W name to make it seem more like the Judge. It has its uses, but if you are looking to do some serious business, you might find there are better choices for this purpose. If you just want one then get one. No need to try to justify a legitimate use for it

Not a big fan of the judge or Governor but the Box o' Truth is bogus. They couldnt be bothered to test the right ammo so the cut down shells and said "That'll be just fine?" Then the guy actually claimed that the 000 buck flattened out in the varrel from mashing into each other? Why would anyone post that as anything other than a joke?

 

[Pyzon]

As usual, your quest for help on a pistol that can shoot .410 shells has brought out the usual bunch of nay-sayers that "knew a dude who hated his and sold it cheap" or it "blew up in some guy's hand" and "had a donut shot pattern that would not penetrate wet toilet paper" and why would you buy a stupid gun like that.....and on and on.....

Sift through those low and no information replies, my friend, and you will find those of us that have a Governor or a Judge that like how they work and what they can do.

Yes, they are large and heavy, probably not so good for concealed carry.

Yes, .410 does not perform as good as a 12 gauge shotgun, whether out of a short or long barrel. It's a .410, not a howitzer. And the 3" shells perform better than 2.5", imagine that.

If home or vehicle defense is the intent, worrying about the pattern at 25 yards is irrelevant, isn't it ?

Buy the shells that were invented for such guns and you will find they work as intended. Oh, and don't forget, birdshot is for birds in case you did not know that.....

When I am working around the farm bush-hogging pastures and the like, I keep one in a shoulder holster for copperhead medicine. They hate birdshot.

And lastly, it sure is fun to shoot one of these rascals.

My two cents worth, only.

 

[buck460XVR]

I also wouldn't want to stand in front of a Red Ryder BB gun, but that doesn't mean that it's a good choice for self-defense either.

Your fear of a .173'' projectile traveling at less than 350fps has little to do with the effectiveness of a Winchester® PDX1 .410 shotshell against a human attacker at 3 feet. One was designed for safe play for adolescents back in 1938 while the other was specifically designed for SD/HD using a specific centerfire firearm almost 75 years later. At that range, one will leave a raised welt when shot against clothing, while the other will leave a hole you can see a BGs innards thru. There really is no comparison. As I said before...a Judge or Governor would not be my first choice either, but after shooting one, I certainly understand why they are so popular.

 

[greenmtnguy]

I just keep hoping that S&W will chop that cylinder down and offer it as a DA revolver with a 3" barrel and a cylinder that can take 45 Colt and 45ACP w/ moonclips at a lower price point that a Model 25. Now THAT, is a revolver that I WOULD buy and carry with me backpacking.

 

[suemarkp]

I have a Taurus 450Ti (45 colt), S&W 625 (45 ACP), and two Judges (45Colt/410).

I like the 450Ti the best -- very light weight and makes a nice carry gun. It isn't made anymore, so you'd have to find a used one.

The 625 is well balanced, but a big and rather heavy gun. There may still be a model 25 available in 45 Colt.

The Judge is a bit nose heavy, but has a nice medium weight and is very versatile.

I've never held a Governor, but it seems to be heavier than the Judge and just as nose heavy. It has one more shot over a Judge which can be a plus.

I was thinking a short non-ported barrel S&W 460 may be the ticket. The cartridge is long enough it could be loaded with three 44 cal lead balls which have been bumped to 45 cal, or a lot of shot. But its a darn big and heavy gun frame. For a house gun, it may not be a bad choice. But I don't see the short barrel 460's for sale anymore.

 

[The Good]

Thanks guys. I really appreciate the informed opinions, and one theme I'm noticing is that I've yet to hear from anyone who has tried this gun out and didn't like it.

Still, there were a few well informed guys who made good points about why I might want to think twice about getting this gun. I'm not gonna ignore these guys because even though they haven't shot the gun, their points were still based on logic or science.
The big one that had me concerned was the quick spread of the loads creating danger beyond the target. I think that's a reasonable concern, but for my personal preferences, and my needs, it's really not a concern at all and I'd like to explain why:
1. I live in a suburban neighborhood. Every house has large front, back, and side yard. During the day, there's an occasional dog walker on the street. Innocent bystanders aren't much of a concern. However, even if they were a concern, they wouldn't be for me because..
2. I'm never gonna shoot someone who isn't close to me. The way my house is designed, there's only really one place where I could ever have more than 6 feet between me and another person. Even if there was a bigger distance in my house, that wouldn't matter because if I had that type of distance(which means he's more than 6 feet away and ISN'T coming closer), I'd much rather retreat to another room than shoot the guy. Unlike a lot of you guys, I don't have a wife or kids to worry about so in my situation it'd be much better to avoid taking a shot.
3. At first I thought that I had been kind of air headed to not think about the threat this caused for innocent bystanders, this being the first time I've considered a weapon that fires anything other than a bullet, but then I realized something. The change in ammunition changes nothing. I wouldn't fire ANY gun if there was a possibility of an innocent bystander on the other side of my target. It doesn't matter HOW sure I am of my shot whether it's .410, .45 ACP, .22LR, 7.62x39mm, or anything else because there's no way to be 100% sure a shot is gonna hit it's target and if there was, it could still go through and continue to travel. The precautions I would need to take to avoid the pellets endangering an innocent bystander are precautions I would already take with any type of gun.


So my next major concern was "is the .410 useless from a handgun" and I did a little research, and a little review reading, and what I found was "yes and no". Most .410 shells probably will perform poorly from the gun, but now federal makes a specialized buck shot shell just for these .410 revolvers and it performs very well.


My last concern wasn't even a concern until a bunch of people started telling me I'd be better off just buying a regular .45 colt revolver. I assumed that if someone was telling me that it would be smarter to buy another gun that shoots only one of the 3 ammunition options of this gun, there must be some advantage to having a .45 colt only revolver rather than this revolver. So far no one has been able to offer any evidence of that, and several people who have fired both have said there is no difference in performance. So as far as I can tell, the only difference between this and a .45 colt revolver is that this one can shoot two additional rounds and looks differently. I try not to buy a gun based on looks, but if it came down to looks, I do like the way the governor looks. But it's not coming down to looks because it's apparently a very effective self defense weapon that offers three great options that all perform very well, and it's not very expensive at all.

I love the simplicity of a revolver. There's a reason they've been being made for so long and why so many of us still prefer them over autoloaders. I currently have only one handgun and it's a j frame revolver. When I decided it was time to expand my horizons and get a few guns for other purposes, the first hole I wanted to fill was home defense. I considered the most popular option, the 12 gauge shotgun.. but to me, eve if a 12 gauge shotgun is the best option, for me it's a type of gun that i have very limited experience with. I don't get a lot of range time and it will be a while before I start getting more because of my illness. I don't want to end up in a self defense scenario with a gun that I don't feel 100% confident with. I've fired Smith and Wesson revolvers extensively. As comfortable as others may be with a 12 gauge shotgun, I just wouldn't have that experience, so I was pretty excited to see Smith and Wesson making this revolver in 3 different great self defense loads, and with everything I could really ask for in a home defense gun. It's got fixed sights, it's got the tritium night sight, it's got a short barrel, it's DA/SA, nice frame size, not that heavy, and not that expensive.

So I guess at this point the only question I still would like an answer to is this: am I wrong to think there will be no surprises? If I'm familiar with smith and wesson revolvers, is there anything here that will catch me off guard?

 

[allaroundhunter]

Well, I did tell you that I didn't like it, but I guess I am in the minority. I spent a week with one (a friend's) putting it through its paces. With .45 Colt, accuracy suffered past 10 yards. I'm talking a 4" group at best when you got to 15 yards. The .45 ACP was the same way.

When I got to the .410 shells there was a little more potential, as a snake gun. When I was using "defensive" loads the recoil was just more than I would ever want in a SD gun. Is it unbearable? No, but I can easily fire at least 3 accurate 9mm rounds in the time it takes me to fire 2 out of the governor. It also patterns quite poorly... Okay, very poorly. To me it really is a gimmick. From up close (less than 10 yards) it has some potential, but there are many other firearms that serve the defensive purpose much better.

 

[rswartsell]

I have fired both a "Judge" and a "Governor" and ....drum roll please... I didn't like them.


They are quite simply too much a compromise. The design concept is based on chasing the value of "versatility". They are by comparison;

!. poorly balanced
2. inherently inaccurate at any distance (accurate enough at arms length doesn't mean this is wrong). So one great "leg" of true versatility is missing.
3. too ungainly (large) to conceal.
4. relatively poor actions. Why put effort or money into any 1 kind of action if the buyer has not made up his mind just what it is he wants? I found them to be rough and heavy for S&W N frame (which for size they are, but not really) and comparable to J frame (which is concealable when these clearly are not).

To a man who only wants 1 gun and doesn't expect much out of any 1 category they are an economic dream removing the necessity of several guns, to a man who wants a good gun of any of the various descriptions. They will not do. They are not for everyone.

An attempt at "Jack of all Trades, Master of None?".

There is no doubt they pattern poorly as a .410 shotgun. Measure the cylinder throats to understand the potential for .45 Colt accuracy. The response will be that both are good at arms length. Among popular .45 Colt revolvers at beyond say 45 feet, it is a least expected performer.

Conclusion, if you don't need to conceal, you don't need balance, don't need accuracy at any distance and don't need a good action.....but you need a gun....you need a Judge.

 

[radar1972]

OP, I don't own one nor have I ever fired one, so I can't give you an experienced opinion.

But I can say that if it is what you want, then go get it and enjoy it.

 

[natman]

Not a big fan of the judge or Governor but the Box o' Truth is bogus. They couldnt be bothered to test the right ammo so the cut down shells and said "That'll be just fine?" Then the guy actually claimed that the 000 buck flattened out in the varrel from mashing into each other? Why would anyone post that as anything other than a joke?

Because it's true. I realize that buckshot doesn't behave that way when fired from a shotgun. However, when fired from a revolver, the projectile has to deal with the transition from the cylinder, jump the gap and squeeze through the forcing cone.

The guy who does BOT got a lot of flak from people who didn't want to believe the first test and grasped at the cutdown shells as an excuse. (He couldn't get 2.5" 410 buckshot ammo AT THE TIME). So he ran it again with a then-available 3" Judge and with 3" ammo.

Guess what? The soft buckshot still flattened out, the patterns still spread out too far, penetration was still inadequate.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot53.htm

The ability of the human mind to disbelieve facts in favor of what they want to believe is amazing. I understand the appeal of the "Shotgun in a holster" concept, I really do. If it worked, I'd have one, despite the cosmetic drawbacks. But the fact is that it simply doesn't work as a HD tool as well as a 45 caliber revolver. So I don't.

 

[ljnowell]

Because it's true. I realize that buckshot doesn't behave that way when fired from a shotgun. However, when fired from a revolver, the projectile has to deal with the transition from the cylinder, jump the gap and squeeze through the forcing cone.

The guy who does BOT got a lot of flak from people who didn't want to believe the first test and grasped at the cutdown shells as an excuse. (He couldn't get 2.5" 410 buckshot ammo AT THE TIME). So he ran it again with a then-available 3" Judge and with 3" ammo.

Guess what? The soft buckshot still flattened out, the patterns still spread out too far, penetration was still inadequate.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot53.htm

The ability of the human mind to disbelieve facts in favor of what they want to believe is amazing. I understand the appeal of the "Shotgun in a holster" concept, I really do. If it worked, I'd have one, despite the cosmetic drawbacks. But the fact is that it simply doesn't work as a HD tool as well as a 45 caliber revolver. So I

The slug flattened out too when shot into the same media. There is no proof of any of his theory being true. That doesnt stop him from insisting it is and others quoting a most unscientific test as true. BTW 000 buck is .36" diameter, how tight do you reckon those throats, forcing cone, and rifling are?

 

[natman]

The slug flattened out too when shot into the same media. There is no proof of any of his theory being true. That doesnt stop him from insisting it is and others quoting a most unscientific test as true. BTW 000 buck is .36" diameter, how tight do you reckon those throats, forcing cone, and rifling are?

If you look at the pictures in the first test you can see what appears to be rifling marks on the slug.

Regardless of how they got that way, the fact remains that the slugs were flat at the end and penetration, not surprisingly, was poor.

Perhaps you'd now like to explain away the lousy patterns?

 

[natman]

The slug flattened out too when shot into the same media. There is no proof of any of his theory being true. That doesnt stop him from insisting it is and others quoting a most unscientific test as true. BTW 000 buck is .36" diameter, how tight do you reckon those throats, forcing cone, and rifling are?

Regardless of how they got that way, the fact remains that the slugs were flat at the end and penetration, not surprisingly, was poor. That's the bottom line.

Perhaps you'd now like to explain away the lousy patterns?

 

[Stainz]

Last month marked two years of Governor ownership for me. I had stopped at a new lgs looking for a 325 Night Guard, as my 625JM was my only .45 ACP handgun - and I keep 240+ moonclips loaded and ready. I wanted a 'smaller' and dedicated night stand .45 ACP revolver. The Governor has the same construction as the NG series; Al/Sc frame, black SS barrel & cylinder, fixed rear sight, Tritium 'Night Sight' on front, and similar barrel length (2.75" for the Governor and 2.625" for the NG series.). The Governor is longer by 7/8" in OAL and heavier by 1.8 oz than the 325NG. Both use the same moonclipped .45 ACPs as my 625JM. Additionally, the Governor uses the same HKS #25-5 Speedloaders for .45 Colt as my 625MG's in .45 Colt. Besides the moonclipped .45 ACPs, it will also take the .45 GAP ammo, as mentioned earlier, and the .45 'Short Colt' - the .45 Schofield. My 625 JM takes the two moonclipped loads while my .45 Colt 625 Mountain Guns take the 'long' and 'short' Colts, too. Why buy a Governor?

Simply stated - price. The Governor was, at $579, over $300 less than the cheapest 325NG I had found. Less than a used 625, too. I knew it would be 'sufficient', too - it's a S&W! I still love it, too. Oh... I bought a mix of .410 shot shells for it the first week. Yep - they scatter... even the PDX1's do - and their significant recoil had me put my .500 Magnum grips on my Governor - for a while - back to OEM's now, even if all of my pix have it sporting the X-frame grips. It hits close enough to be termed coincident from 5-12yd with both 230gr ball .45 ACP and 250gr Speer Gold Dot .45 Colt ammo - as good as my 625's. I ordered a great holster from S&W the second day I had the Governor - it arrived by week's end. It's a great revolver - which will also dispense .410's, although I haven't bought any for mine since it's first week of ownership.

Slightly bigger than a 642...



Stainz

 

[HiVel]

I like my Gov. It works great for a field gun and a HD gun if you want it too. I have shot several varied kinds of shotshells and find them not so great but I think they would sure be scary if you were on the receiving end of that blast up close and personal . Great for a second gun out hunting with mixed loads for whatever varmits might come along-lots of snakes here in LA. where we deer hunt. Also - Alligators and some big pigs, bobcats, rattlers, coyotes, armadillos, and some smaller critters. Good to have a handgun on your hip along with your rifle. I like it for that use . AS far as HD , it will work fine. Good 45 ACP with moons . or 45 Colt SD stuff will work fine. Nice gun with lots of uses but not a range or target revolver, not to say it is not decently accurate. Good enough for all sorts of work, If you want one , buy one ,as it will be a pleasant surprise I think .

 

[PlayTheAces]

Okay. I own a governor as well. I don't use it as a HD gun, I prefer my old model 19 for that. But if the governor was all I had, I'd sleep very comfortably.

First off, it fires a .45 LC. I don't think even the extreme governor haters would tell you a .45 LC isn't a potent self defense round.

Then you have the option of the .45 ACP as well. Another proven man stopper.

So you have a reliable revolver that shoots two great defense rounds. You could stop there, buy it, and have a solid weapon. No need to even get involved in the .410 debate.

As far as the .410, you can argue that either way, all day, every day, forever. Personally I think the .410 self defense rounds that have been developed for these pistols would be absolutely devastating at close range, say 15 feet or less. Self defense range for me. But if you don't dig the .410, stoke it with your choice of .45 and call it good.

As for the gun itself, I enjoy shooting it. It's accurate and reliable. I don't think it has the natural pointability that many revolvers possess, as it feels slightly unwieldy. Sometimes I think it feels that way to me because it looks that way to me. Dunno.

So now y'all have some thoughts from another actual governor owner. A guy that's owned and shot a fair number of guns in the last forty some years. Would I buy it again? Yup.

 

[tomrkba]

So you have a reliable revolver that shoots two great defense rounds.

It shoots only one great defense round--45 Colt.

As far as the .410, you can argue that either way, all day, every day, forever. Personally I think the .410 self defense rounds that have been developed for these pistols would be absolutely devastating at close range, say 15 feet or less. Self defense range for me. But if you don't dig the .410, stoke it with your choice of .45 and call it good.

Not really; the shot has to hit the vitals and penetrate. It's no contest that the Governor/Judge are 45 Colt guns. The Judge shot 1-2" groups with 45 Colt at 21 feet. I fired the Judge at 21 feet with 410 buckshot. None of the balls hit center of mass. There was one groin hit, one in the right shoulder and one that would have gone through the other shoulder. It was something like a 22-24" spread. Shooting a gun that patterns like that at someone is negligently dangerous. It would be very, very easy to take a shot at a target too far away, miss, and put shot into a bystander. Don't be stupid and use one of these for defense with anything other than 45 Colt.

If you wish to risk it, then you deserve prison time when your shot hits a bystander. I have no sympathy for people suffering the consequences of sloppy thinking as related to self-defense.

 

[ljnowell]

Regardless of how they got that way, the fact remains that the slugs were flat at the end and penetration, not surprisingly, was poor. That's the bottom line.

Perhaps you'd now like to explain away the lousy patterns?

Thats not the bottom line, you are changing the subject.

Why would I explain anything to do with the patterns? I'm, not advocating this pistol to anyone. I could care less if people buy them, I certainly wont be buying one. I simply think the Box o' Truth is a Box o' Garbage in this case.

 

[JShirley]

To the OP:

You already have a 642. I'd suggest you get one of the many high-quality 3-5" .357s available used. You can then either use the same .38s you fire in your 642, or use one of the many very effective .357 defensive loads available. Many experts would probably describe the .357 Magnum 125 grain JHP as the benchmark that all other defensive handgun loads are judged by.

The .410 is in no respect a good defensive arm, especially when handicapped by a short barrel. There are many good .38 and .357 defensive loads available, and it will be easy to buy a good one for much less than the best .45 Colt standard-pressure defensive loads. And finding a good used .357 for half of what a Governor would cost should be fairly easy.

John
(does not own a Governor or Judge, but does own 3 .45s, a 642, and a 3" .357)