S&W Hammer Nose Spring 10 64 65

[cyclopsshooter]

For many years I have been a fan of Smith models 10, 64, 65- recently I began noticing that a hammer nose "spring" exists on some models and not others- a 64-2 made in 1980 has it, so does a model 65-5, but a 65-3 does not. Perhaps the hammer nose had been replaced on the -3 leaving the spring missing... I just can not figure it out- When did this engineering change take place?

The Great Carnac says Oro has the answer-

 

[The Bushmaster]

Hammer nose spring? Not sure what you are talking about.

 

[cyclopsshooter]

the firing pin in the older hammers is called a "nose" ... at least by gunparts corp... some firing pins are spring loaded and some are not

 

[Oro]

The Great Carnac says Oro has the answer-

Try Old Fuff, but I'll give it my best guess - it's a Magnum thing. Here's some observations:

The only guns I have with it are magnums. 1980 and earlier .357s ones have it. 1985 and later ones don't. My only few pre-War non-magnums do not (I do not have a pre-War magnum). Somewhere I've got a 1960 and a 1985 .44 magnums which I could use to further test this theory; but I just looked and can't find them to verify. I'm sure they'll show up in the next few days (dang, where are they?). This happens all to often around here. I'm also missing a WWI-era Beakart .22/.32 if someone happens to runs across that...

I would wager the reason the 64 has it is those guns use the same, lower-volume product flash-chromed hammer as the 65/66, so S&W didn't bother making separate springed variants and non-springed variants. Just a speculation. Then, like some "over engineered" things, like the barrel pins and recessed cylinders, they eventually just did away with it because it was over kill. The time frame they disappeared - early '80s - also coincides with more CNC production, so that makes a little more speculative sense of the timing

That's my guess and observations. But Old Fuff has seen more (by my estimate 2,500 +/-!) older S&W revolvers than I have. His insights will be much keener.

 

[The Bushmaster]

I had a feeling that's what you meant. I have three Mod 10s and one Mod 19. Only one of the Mod 10s has a spring loaded firing pin. The rest are free floating...Never gave it much thought. In fact in all the years I have had these four revolvers (going on 30 years) I never noticed it. I must pay more attention to these guns...

 

[cyclopsshooter]

I'm still not there Oro, my 65-5 made in 95 is spring loaded... but like you one of my first thoughts was that it was a magnum thing- but the 64 had it so... you may be right about the parts sharing thing at the factory- as far as the triggers and hammers go i thought they were either stainless or case hardened- could you elaborate on the use of "flash chrome?"

how bout it old fuff, could you shine your light on us?

 

[Oro]

I'm still not there Oro, my 65-5 made in 95 is spring loaded...

I don't have enough guns or seen enough to explain it. I have also seen some threads on this in this and other forums and never seen an adequate "rule" to explain it all. I can't help any further.

i thought they were either stainless or case hardened- could you elaborate on the use of "flash chrome?"

S&W only used stainless hammers/triggers for a brief period in the 60's - I think the first two years after the 60 was introduced (1966 - the first stainless steel handgun). They quickly discovered the softer stainless did not stand up to the duty of sear action and wore out too quickly. They then switched to "flash chroming" over carbon steel. It offered a much harder surface than stainless and corrosion resistance similar to stainless; much better than case hardening - and the looks matched pretty closely. Any S&W stainless gun you see after '68 (thus all 66's, 67's, etc.) have "flash chromed' hammer/triggers and not stainless. In the early '90s they switched the stainless guns over to case-hardened parts for a generation, but then I think they went back to flash-chromed as a rule for the next generation and later.

Flash chroming is just taking the carbon part and dunking it in a chrome bath quickly and letting it set, no further layers or polishing. Looks a lot like matte stainless and confuses many people.

 

[cyclopsshooter]

bizarre... of my two 64-3s one has an S stamped behind the trigger ill check the other tomorrow- maybe this trigger is not original

 

[4D5]

Recently picked up a S&W 15-2. No spring. I called S&W and sure enough, some were manufactured without springs.

 

[Oro]

bizarre... of my two 64-3s one has an S stamped behind the trigger ill check the other tomorrow- maybe this trigger is not original

That might have just been a stamp to indicate it was to go with a stainless gun, not that it was stainless itself. I don't *think* there were ever any stainless K trigger/hammer combos - I think they nixed it with the J-frames before the K stainless models ever came out.

 

[Jim K]

I have checked several sources and can find no mention of that spring or any rhyme or reason for when or why it was used. Yet Gun Parts Corp. lists it for many S&W models, and some hammers without it have the seat for it.

My Model 19-3 and a Model 14 do not have it, but a 686-1 and a 28-2 do.

Maybe Old Fuff can come up with an answer.

Jim

 

[cyclopsshooter]

i sure would like to know if there is a particular advantage to have the spring or if it was just a redundant sign of company care like recessed cylinders

 

[dfariswheel]

Actually, the spring was added on later S&W revolvers, and the earlier models had no spring, so this wasn't a pinned and recessed type quality thing.

The spring keeps the firing pin ("Hammer nose" according to S&W) orientated downward and this helps prevent battering of the firing pin bushing.
Dry fire a non-spring model much and you'll notice the top of the firing pin bushing hole is getting pushed outward, forming a burr.
The spring helps prevent this.

S&W seems to have used/not used the spring Willy-nilly on various models and often on the same model and dash version according to some arcane formula that makes no sense to anyone but them.

Best to just say "some do, and some don't" and leave it there.