S&W HE

[tomr8368]

I have a puzzle. When my father passed away I inherited his S&W HE serial no. 534,815. The serial No. appears on the barrel, butt and cylinder and is within the range of the pre war HE, ie 263,001 - 536,684.
However, it has a 2" barrel which was introduced in 1949 according to the Standard Catalog of S&W, and the box is red with a label stating Hand Ejector, 2" Barrel. I also have the receipt for it, and he bought it in 1950 in Houston. This seems to indicate it was a Post War.
Some time ago I was told to look for whether it has a "rebounding" hammer block, which was on the post war models. That the pre war model had a hammer block also, but not "rebounding".
What's rebouning mean, and how can I tell the physical difference? What should I look for?
I've written Roy Jenks at Smith and Wesson for a history and hopefully an identification, and will post the reply when I get it.
Many thanks for whatever info you all may have to help clarify the puzzle for me.
Tom

 

[Old Fuff]

Tom:

Given the serial number I presume that your Hand Ejector is a model 1905 Military & Police in .38 Special. If this is wrong post a correction.

I believe the 1949 date in Jim's book is one of the very few misprints and/or mistakes. The first 2" barrels were made following an order from Harold Wesson on June 29, 1933. Round-butt guns followed soon thereafter. After that 2" revolvers continued in production, even through World War Two when some of them were used on Victory Models.

From the beginning of production in 1899 K-frame hand ejectors had something in they're lockwork that would cause the hammer to rebound (back up) after the firing pin hit a primer so that the firing pin would not rest against the primer of the next cartridge. In addition, after the hammer rebounded it was blocked at the bottom so at least in theory a hard blow on the hammer would not cause the gun to fire. Later guns made following World War One had an additional hammer block built into the sideplate that blocked the hammer just under the firing pin after the hammer rebounded, and I would expect your revolver is so equipped.

In 1944 a revolver issued to a seaman on a battleship was dropped on the deck and discharged. The bullet hit and killed the seaman. As a result S&W redesigned the hammer block to be more positive and again block the hammer just under the firing pin. At the same time the seperate hammer rebound/ lower hammer block system was retained. The improved hammer block was introduced in early 1945 and is still used to this day.

Pre-World War Two production of 2" Military & Police revolvers was limited in relationship to the longer barrel lengths. If yours is boxed you have a very desireable collector's item as well as an excellent revolver.

 

[tomr8368]

I appreciate your reply very much. I'm afraid an oversight of mine may have mislead you. I failed to mention that it is chambered for the S&W .32 long cartrige. The revolver looks just like the one on p. 93 of the Standard Catalog of S&W.
Is there a way to identify which hammer block is in it? I follow your description of the two types, but don't know what to look for. Obviously you know a heck of alot about them....
Tom

 

[Old Fuff]

I see ... said the blind man.

Well I can tell you what you should have, but only Roy Jinks at S&W can tell you what you do have ... because he has access to the factory records.

Pre war production of the model 1903 Hand Ejector ended in early 1942, suposedly at serial number 536684. The serial number on your frame 5348xx indicates that it was late per-war. However this does not mean that the gun was made then because S&W would manufacture frames in batches, serial number them, and then hold them in inventory until they were built into guns -which in some cases was years later.

Following the war, production resumed in 1946 at serial number 536685 and went forward to 1957 when the model 30 replaced it (same gun, different markings). As you know the 2" barrel for this model was introduced in 1949, and paperwork you have with the gun indicates it was purchased in 1950, so I speculate the revolver was made sometime during 1949 or 1950 on a pre-war frame that was left over. This would be uncommon, but not unusual at Smith & Wesson. They never scrapped anything they could use.

As for the safety. After insuring the revolver is unloaded, cock the hammer and look at it from the side. Those guns that have the "new" hammer block have a pronounced square cut-out in the hammer face just under the firing pin. Those that have the "old" safety built into the sideplate have a gentle radius on the hammer face under the firing pin. Suposedly the new hammer block was introduced in 1946 at serial number 536685, but given that you have a 2" barrel I wouldn't be suprised if you have the newer safety also.

Given the serial number, the fact you have the original box, and the 2" barrel you still have a even more desireable collectable as well a a fine revolver.

 

[tomr8368]

Old Fuff:
(what's a Fuff?)
Your description of the old and new hammer block was enough for this guy who doesn't know a whole lot about guns to tell you that it does have the new hammer block... the face of the hammer under the firing pin is square ( or really rectangular), so it must be as you say made later out of parts produced at the beginning of the war.
I also have the receipt for it... he paid $50.25 for it in 1950.
I very much appreciate your comments and research into this... It looks like you've solved a puzzle. I'll post the reply from Mr. Jenks when I get it.
I wish they still made revolvers like this, it would make a fine carry piece but because of its history and the fact that it came from my Dad, I'll keep it as I got it. He never shot it and only cleaned it from time to time as I have done. Its bluing is about 100%... a beautiful revolver.
Tom

 

[Old Fuff]

Old Fuff = elderly, obnoxious, cantankerous, opinioned reprobate.

You’re right, they are neat little revolvers. They are often very accurate, but these days buyers what more horsepower. For that reason you often find them on the used market for modest prices, but with longer 3 ½ or 4 1/4 inch barrels. The Taurus company may be coming out with something interesting in a snubby.

As a source for both guns and information I recommend Jim Surpica, a fine gentleman and co-author of “Standard Catalog of Smith & Wesson.†which you have. You will find Jim at:

www.armchairgunshow.com

 

[tomr8368]

OF:
I fit the definition too, but you claimed it first....
Again many thanks and have a great holiday.
Tom

 

[Jim K]

Another way to tell the old types of hammer block (there were two different types) is that the old types move sideways (to the right or into the sideplate) to get out of the way of the hammer when the trigger is pulled, while the new type moves downward. The reason for the square notch Old Fuff mentions is that the hammer block moves down to where it will fit into that notch when the hammer falls.

You can look into the frame in front of the hammer and see the difference if you have both types.

Jim

 

[tomr8368]

S & W Letter

I got a letter today from Mr. Jinks about the revolver. He simply concluded it was a post war hand ejector and did not address the question of when it might have been built, given the pre war serial number and post war 2" barrel.
He did say it was first shipped in 1949 to a hardware store in Kentucky. I suppose this is all I can expect since there are probably no records on date of manufacture of revolvers.
Old Fuff, I think your comment is probably accurate and I've made a copy to keep with the revolver. Many thanks to both you and Jim for the help in identifying the hammer block too.
Tom

 

[Old Fuff]

The records that S&W Historian; Roy Jinks has available are shipping records, not production records - with few exceptions. For example, the first predecessor of your revolver was the .32 Hand Ejector, 1st model or model 1896. 19,712 were made between 1896 and 1903, but it is believed that most, if not all of the frames were made before 1898. I also know of a similar Regulation Police model (same as your gun with a square butt and longer barrel) that is serial numbered below the supposed starting point.

What you have beyond doubt is a post-war revolver with a pre-war serial number. This in itself makes the gun more valuable as a collectable. When you consider its condition and the fact that you have the original box, papers etc. it is especially so. Take good care of it.

 

[tomr8368]

Thank you for all your help on this... it clarified something that I wasn't able to make sense of. Its nice to have a revolver that's a little out of the ordinary and I'll be sure it stays in the family.
Tom