S&W Internal Lock Revolvers

[BADUNAME37]

Are these something which may be a future collector piece?

Do members see these internal locks staying or eventually going?

If they stop production of these locks sometime down the road, will it make those already made worth more?

 

[Jack2427]

As a dedicated S&W guy, I think I can with some authority that the "lock guns" will NEVER be collector guns. The only reason they exist is that S&W was bought by a lock company(seriously). In addition the "lock" feature was coinsidered to be more PC and would mollify the antis somewhat. S&W may have figured out by now that you can never appease the antis with anything less than total banning of all guns. They are currently selling some new models without the locks, but I think they are just using up old frames which would otherwise go to waste. Of course there is always hope.........
I have purchased 2 guns with locks because they were the N frames in 44 special and 45 ACP that I could not get elsewhere. In general ther are 2 kinds of S&W guys, those who hate the locks, and those who REALLY HATE the locks.

 

[Old Fuff]

For product liability reasons as well as possible future laws requiring internal locks I doubt that S&W will drop the lock, but they might modify it to make it more customer friendly. At present, Taurus has used a lock longer then S&W, and Ruger has started and seems to be going in that direction.

It is possible that down the long, long road the present lockable guns might have some extra value - especially if S&W, Taurus and Ruger discontinue making revolvers in favor of pistols. But unless one is very young I don't see lockable revolvers becoming collectors items within a preson's lifetime.

If you are interested in collectables, stick with older S&W revolvers, especially those made during or before World War Two. Those for the most part have a collector's value now, and it seems to keep going up.

 

[Gator]

If they drop the lock the guns with them will become dirt cheap, I might almost consider buying one then...but not before!

But, that will never happen.

 

[dbriannelson]

S&W now sells the 442 and 642 in a no-lock configuration. There have been enough problems with them that it's likely they'll come up with some other "product safety" version eventually in order to justify removal of the flag lock. I have no idea what, but the way things are going a manufacturer cannot simply delete any item that is related to "safety."

There's a pretty good chance that complete flag lock revolvers will have collector value, as they are not currently popular, and most of us who do buy them simply remove the flag anyway. I'm keeping my flags in the hard boxes just in case this happens.

-Don

 

[Hawk]

IL S&Ws will be collectible but likely it'll be my kid's generation.

If internet traffic accurately reflected the revolver buying public the lock would have disappeared by now. The observable fact is that S&W's revolver production is up 17% between 05 and 06. 2006 saw 185,000 IL revolvers sold.

Supica opines in SCoSW that all the flap over the lock will go the way of flap over the pinned barrel, recessed cylinders and the introduction of stainless steel. When a modern collectible is available in both configurations, the non-lock version is getting a 10 to 20% premium. While this might sound like a lot to one selling an IL model, it's far from the 100% difference some would have you believe.

Older S&Ws will soon be priced out of the range of shooters. New shooters and collectors won't get breathless over mim and ILs any more than most of us do over stainless steel.

The disconcerting observation is that there seems to be an utter and total disconnect between what people say about buying lock vs no-lock and what actually happens at the store with the general public.

Conjecture: it may just be that it's exceptionally easy to both proclaim and act on a "no lock" buying resolution if you already have sufficient pre-lock product. If we get new blood, they won't already own pre-lock and the available used market is already getting nutzoid - the current production will look pretty good.

And if we don't get new blood we're doomed anyway. A fixed supply pool with a stagnant number of fans passing ever increasing sums of money between themselves is a pretty moribund picture.

 

[Old Fuff]

And if we don't get new blood we're doomed anyway. A fixed supply pool with a stagnant number of fans passing ever increasing sums of money between themselves is a pretty moribund picture.

True, but in addition the younger market is going for large-cap pistols, mostly with polymer frames and MIM/pressed metal stampngs for lockwork. The industry is more then willing to go along because the profit margin is much better then what they make on more-expensive-to-produce revolvers.

Regardless of how they are made, I think the next generation is going to have a much smaller number of new revolvers to pick from.

But it's highly unlikely I'll be around...

 

[CajunBass]

I keep thinking if all you internet lock haters are right, and NOBODY is buying the Smith & Wesson's with locks, sooner or later the prices will start to drop like a rock. Then I'll buy one.

I haven't noticed the prices doing a nosedive lately. That tells me that someone is buying them, in spite of what I read on the net.

 

[Hawk]

True, but in addition the younger market is going for large-cap pistols, mostly with polymer frames and MIM/pressed metal stampngs for lockwork.

True but not always.

And though things have changed over time, this place wasn't the kind of virtual community where a proud new owner could post a pic of his new (in every sense of the word) revolver without putting up with a pantload of flack.

I doubt it discouraged anyone that wanted a first revolver from buying an IL product but it probably discouraged his participation in the forum.

Of course, I'm not talking about you or I <- angelic smilie.

But ILs have a near magical ability to bring rude and inconsiderate mossbacks out of the woodwork. It's much better now but if I didn't poison the well by predicting it, there'd be a "hillary hole" post in the first 20 postings. Actually, I'm probably insulting "mossbacks" - "hillary hole" is adolescent enough I wonder if perhaps those using it aren't actually 12 years old and here solely because the counterstrike servers are lagging.

 

[Quiet]

I bought an internal lock S&W revolver.

I'm not a revolver guy and didn't know anything about the internal lock when I bought it.

I use to own a pre-lock S&W Model 686 Plus, but sold it to a friend cause I needed the money & I was consolidating calibers.

This year, I ended up buying an internal lock S&W Model 325PD.
It's in a caliber I shoot (.45ACP) and it was selling for $350.

The more I read about the internal lock, the more I dislike it.

But, so far, it's not an issue for me since I don't use the internal lock function on the revolver.


What I have noticed is that the internal lock S&W revolvers are driving up the prices on used pre-lock S&W revolvers.
For this reason, I do not forsee the internal lock S&W revolvers in being desireable collector's items in the future.

 

[Deanimator]

But, so far, it's not an issue for me since I don't use the internal lock function on the revolver.

Sometimes you don't get a choice. They've been known to lock themselves.

 

[Gator]

...if all you internet lock haters are right, and NOBODY is buying the Smith & Wesson's with locks...

I've never heard a "lock hater" say the lock guns are not selling. I have heard many revolver afficiandos saw they won't buy one, and that's a very different thing. Traditional revolver lovers are far outnumbered by the general gun buying public.

 

[Evyl Robot]

I've got several new Smiths. The flags don't bother me as they reside in a seperate container.

--Michael

 

[Zeede]

I'm as "new blood" as it gets. 30 years old, just got into guns last May. I wanted a polymer gun badly, but was really put off by the way Glocks look. I admire their simplicity and ruggedness of design, but I also don't want to open my safe and go, "Auuugh, what is that???!!! Oh, it's the Glock I bought."

Little by little I started to get more attracted to revolvers. Especially after I bought my first over/under shotgun. Yes, the gas-operated autoloader shotguns are more whizz-bang, but I liked the simplicity, ease of cleaning and reliability of the over/under design. Kinda carries over to revolvers. Especially since I reload, I can handload a lot more variety out of my handloads compared to autoloader pistols that need a specific range to function in.

That said, the internal locks don't bother me as I really don't have a choice in the matter. I don't really care for the Rugers, and the only older Smith & Wesson I like is the Model 27, and those are out of my budget.

I also don't buy the "not enough rounds" argument about revolvers. Especially in California, where 10 is the max, no matter the caliber. Plus, nobody has ever said I'm disadvantaged with "only" 6+1 rounds in my Remington 870 TAC-2.

Cameron

 

[pinkymingeo]

I have 5 revolvers with the IL (all disabled). I don't particularly like the lock, but I very much do like top-quality, ultra-light revolvers which pretty much means the IL, or nothing. Tell the truth, I don't really mind the appearance of the IL on modern design guns, but hate it on steel guns with traditional lines. Regardless of what I like, the buying public doesn't seem to mind.

 

[AH-1]

my only smith with a lock.ZERO problems.sweet trigger out of the box and deadly accurate.
627-5 pro

 

[NGIB]

I have some with and some without - don't care either way. I do notice that pre-lock guns are being priced very high...

 

[Fenderskirt66]

I just joined the 642 club this weekend and I can tell you from my experience at the gun show, the used S&W pre locks were sky high. The new and used 642's WITH LOCK were all priced on average $425 - $450. I was very lucky to find a post lock 642-1 priced at $409. This dealer was low on just about everything so not sure if his pricing reflects what the market is doing, or if he just wanted to move more guns than the competition. Anyhow, I was specifically after a post lock 642 and passed on a used lock 642 with CT grips that could have been had for $475. I put alot of thought into major purchases like firearms and knew the lock would mess with me.

 

[Gator]

I was very lucky to find a post lock 642-1 priced at $409.
...and passed on a used lock 642 with CT grips that could have been had for $475.

I would have bought them both, switched grips, and sold the one with the lock.

 

[jjohnson]

What Jack Said

Jack said

In general ther are 2 kinds of S&W guys, those who hate the locks, and those who REALLY HATE the locks.

I'm one of the Group #2. I'm old enough that I have enough pre-Hillary S&W revolvers to last the rest of my life. I refuse to buy any more new S&W products until this stupidity is over (or I die, at which point I won't care - much). There are still plenty of really good, older S&Ws that haven't been abused. We've all known people who'd buy a .357 or .44 mag, shoot half a box without hearing protectors, and then leave it in a drawer for years.....

That's what I cruise gun shows for.... but no Hillary Hole handguns for me.

I'll start collecting used toothpics or some other garbage before I start collecting Hillary Hole Handguns.... :banghead:

 

[18DAI]

Include me in group #2. I REALLY HATE THE LOCK!!

I bought one of the new lock free 642's, simply to encourage the plumbers and lawn mower designers in charge of S&W to produce more lock free revolvers.

Sure people are buying the lock revolvers, the people who don't know any better!

Those wind up guns are worthless, and I don't see them being collectible in my lifetime. YMMV.

 

[Fenderskirt66]

"I would have bought them both, switched grips, and sold the one with the lock. "

I actually thought about this! But decided against it because I really want the LG-405's, and his were the S&W factory 305's But your right, I would have done the swap and still came out ahead by reselling the 642 w\lock.

 

[Ala Dan]

I doubt that the much dreaded "internal lock" will ever disappear from
the S&W line. Too many "do-gooder's" in our politically correct society
for the S&W family too return to the "good old days" of yesteryear~!

 

[capttom]

I have a pre-lock, post pined barrel Model 36 and a lock 642 Airweight. I carry the Airweight much more often, so apparently for me at least there are more important criteria than the lock.

 

[JERRY]

S&W is trying the waters "again" with new non locked guns in the 642 and 442 models.

if the lock was a non issue then im sure they wouldnt be doing this.