S&W J Frame vs Glock 42?

[SDGlock23]

I'd prefer 38 +P ballistics over a 380 ACP any day of the week, but platform wise, the semi auto has advantages in spades over revolvers and because of those advantages I'd rather have a 380. It's not a ballistic win (although it does have higher capacity) but it is a platform win.

Now if they come out with a new cartridge shooting that 158gr LSWCHP with the same ballistics from the size of something like an LCP or P380/CW380 great, but I'm not holding my breath on that high pressure little bomb.

 

[jimbo555]

All the glocks I have owned can be limp wristed easily. Model 19,26,30s and 36 all have jammed while testing with a less than ideal grip. I don't own them anymore. Revolvers can't have a limp wrist jam.

 

[AK103K]

All the glocks I have owned can be limp wristed easily.

If you intentionally move your arm rearwards with recoil, yea, they will act up, most autos will. If you keep any mass behind the gun, and dont allow it to move rearwards with recoil, even with no grip at all, they will work fine.

Ive tried to make it happen with my Glocks, and had to work hard at it to even have it happen occasionally. The only way I did get it to occur, was when the gun was held sideways, using my thumb and trigger finger. Even then, it still only happened maybe one in five or so rounds.

Revolvers are not immune from stoppages, and usually when they do occur, its a more serious issue and the gun is DRT, and not easily put back into action. Ive had more problems with revolvers over the years than I have with autos, and I shoot a lot more auto than I do revolver.

In the fairly rare instances the autos do have a stoppage, they are usually quickly back in action with a simple TRB.

Regardless what you choose, you better be well versed in them, and understand whats going on when it does occur, and to the point of dealing with it without thought. My experience has been, if the revolver stops, it instantly becomes an impact weapon, or a projectile. Theres no point in fiddling.

 

[jimbo555]

After reading a post by sgt127 a while back about testing semi autos with your weak hand, wet hand etc. I do that to all potential carry guns. Not all the stoppages can be cleared easily. Some required dropping the mag and all required 2 hands. I still like semis and right now a walther pps is my primary. It has passed my tests so far.

 

[DWebb]

Holy cow! What are you afraid of?

Not a darn thing...

 

[ljnowell]

Well, since I carry a 637 most days of the week I have to go with the JFrame. That and I don't really care for the 380 as a cartridge.

 

[stoky]

I've been pondering the tiny nines. I'm thinking I'll just stick to my model 60s and SP-101, although I prefer 1911s (when I think I can keep em covered). I have quite a bit of trigger time with them, and their decades proven reliability, with any ammo I can buy or reload is a plus, IMHO.
I do realize that with only five (or ten w NY reload) rounds greatly hinders the mathematical possibilities of doing in all the SPECTRE goons (what with their MP5s AKs and Uzis, oh my), save the gurl(s) and induce conflagration of the WMD facility, but I'll just have to take the chances.

"It is related that when the ship was in deep but not obvious distress the captain could not persuade the passengers to man the life boats, so he resulted to cultural remedy. To the Germans he said, "It is an order." To the English he said, "It is a game." To the French he said, "It is sinful." To the Italians he said, "It is forbidden." And to the Americans he said, "It is new."
--Jeff Cooper

 

[F-111 John]

Not a darn thing...

Right answer!

 

[heyjoe]

i have a glock 26 since 1994. never a hiccup. same with the glock 42 so far. that being said i have 6 j frames and 2 I frame revolvers and not a hiccup with them either. right now im carrying the glock 42 everyday.

 

[MIL-DOT]

I love revolvers ... that being said, there's hardly an army in the world that still routinely issues revolvers to front-line troops. There is a reason, and it's the same reason no one routinely drives a Stanley Steamer car: they're 19th century technology.
Carry the .38 if you think you'll never actually be in a real gunfight. Otherwise, the Glock.

This is ridiculous,nonsense logic. You might as well point out that no one in NASCAR drives what you and I drive, which, while true, doesn't mean we're 'under-gunned' out on the highway, or that we don't have the best tool for the (our) job. This current infatuation with having exactly what soldiers,cops and "operators" have, has led to tons of money wasted, and the rise of the entire Mall Ninja Industrial Complex.
The odds of any of us ( that aren't soldiers or cops) having to even draw our CCW's is very slim. The odds of us having to fire it is even slimmer. The odds of us being in a full-blown " real gunfight" are even slimmer yet (as in astronomically small).
Carry whatever you can shoot well, and that operates reliably, and you'll have MORE than enough gun for 99.999% of realistic needs. For that last fraction of a percent, there's every possibility a case of grenades and a bazooka wouldn't help.
Now put down the joy-stick and go outside and play in the sunshine.

 

[ACP]

+1 MIL-DOT. Well said!

Now, about that Barrett Model 99 topped with an 8-32x56mm Nightforce sitting in my garage....

 

[Kleanbore]

Posted by MIL-DOT:

The odds of any of us ( that aren't soldiers or cops) having to even draw our CCW's is very slim. The odds of us having to fire it is even slimmer. The odds of us being in a full-blown " real gunfight" are even slimmer yet (as in astronomically small).

The odds of a person being attacked on any one day are far less than remote. The odds of one's being threatened with violence during one's lifetime are much higher.

Should it happen, it is likely that the mere display of a firearm will solve the problem.

But if it does not, it behooves one to have a firearm that can be relied upon to perform adequately.

By the way, in the unlikely event that an attack does occur, what limited data we have indicate that the odds are greater than even that there will be two or more attackers.

While "cops" have sworn duties that others do not have, once the use of force incident starts, the needs are essentially the same for all of us, except that the civilian need not pursue a felon after the threat has ended.

Carry whatever you can shoot well, and that operates reliably, and you'll have MORE than enough gun for 99.999% of realistic needs.

Good idea, provided that the firearm has sufficient wounding capacity and a large enough capacity to deal with the situation.

By the way, many police officers never draw their firearms except in training.

 

[MIL-DOT]

Posted by MIL-DOT: The odds of a person being attacked on any one day are far less than remote..

I thought I pretty much said that.

The odds of one's being threatened with violence during one's lifetime are much higher.

Agreed, and that's why I carry a pistol.

Should it happen, it is likely that the mere display of a firearm will solve the problem...

I know, I alluded to that already,too.

But if it does not, it behooves one to have a firearm that can be relied upon to perform adequately.
the threat has ended..

I thought I also alluded to that, though "adequately" is impossible to define or predict. I usually just carry a 5-shot airweight revolver, but sometimes carry a G19, depending on environment and distance from home. But it's entirely possible that even a 15 round G19 won't be sufficient, so how many extra magazines should I carry around everyday? Two? Ten? Forty?
Obviously,this logic can be carried to absurd extremes, so you have to draw the line at SOME point, just like we do when limiting how many flshlights we carry, or pocket knives, or cash money, or any of a hundred things.
I've run into this argument countless times. Everyone seems to assume that the level of self protection they're comfortable carrying is practical and "adequate", and anyone that carries any less is merely a dead man walking, a hapless sheeple that doesn't care about the lives of himself and his family,etc. It's the same stupid argument, over and over.
Is a 15-round semi-auto "better" than a revolver for self defense? Of course it is. But then, one might break, so we should carry TWO G19's, maybe with 33-round magazines instead of those puny 15 rounders.
But even that might not be "adequate", so why not add a Draco on a shoulder sling loaded with 30 rounds of x39 carried under an trench coat, since that is clearly even bmore "adequate".
The point here is that we're primarilly trying to live normal lives, while also preparing for the unthinkable, but we still have to factor in things like economy, weight, comfort, practicallity, risk, etc.
I'm not a gullible fool for carrying a small revolver, any more than someone carrying a full-sized semi-auto with spare mags is a paranoid nutjob.

 

[Kleanbore]

Posted by MIL-DOT:

I usually just carry a 5-shot airweight revolver, but sometimes carry a G19, depending on environment and distance from home.

Consider that should the contingency present itself, there is no reason to believe that the necessary defensive tools would differ as a result of the probability of occurrence.

 

[WestKentucky]

Can't do glock as the guns tear my knuckle on my thumb to shreds...but in that size of polymer auto, I have tried a few keltecs, ruger, and even kahr. My 3" j frame goes walking every day.

 

[DWebb]

Consider that should the contingency present itself, there is no reason to believe that the necessary defensive tools would differ as a result of the probability of occurrence.

Yes, usually... but maybe not always. We need to consider that where the event goes down can play a large part in what it looks like. For the average mugging, a pistol is probably adequate. While I haven't been there, I hear that it's routine to see Israeli's carrying rifles around. It sure seems to me that we'll continue to see more and more terrorist/active shooter events. If I get caught in one of those, I'm darn sure going to want an AR pistol rather than my Glock. (I'd rather have a full size rifle, but can't really carry one without being stopped, so at this time it's not an option.)

 

[HB]

I just bought my first carry gun and went with a 642. I don't see myself having the gun with me if I can't pocket it so that ruled out the glock 26 (which would be my first choice otherwise).

Like others here I don't see much promise in a 380. I'm sure the glock 42 is a great gun at the range, I don't like the "light" trigger and general shape in my pocket. The grip angle of most autos just doesn't sit right in a jean pocket.

I tried out the lcp and similar small 380s. They seem like a great idea but they are too small for my tastes, I can barely hang onto them and I can't imagine a .380 does much out of such a short barrel.

The accuracy potential of a j frame interests me however and I want to get good with it just to prove a point. I'm primarily a hunter then competitor so this is a new world for me. St. Louis has been going nuts recently so hopefully if I ever need it a 642 will be enough.

EDIT

I should also add that I will eventually get something smaller to carry when even a 642 is too big. Likely a Taurus TCP

HB

 

[Kleanbore]

Posted by HB:

I just bought my first carry gun and went with a 642.

That's what I did, about six and a half years ago. It no longer serves as primary carry weapon.

I don't see myself having the gun with me if I can't pocket it....

I agree that is a good idea to have a handgun that can be pocketed, but before on decides to rely on such a firearm for self defense, one should consider how quickly one can draw and present if should the need occur.

My 642 now resides in a weak-hand-side vest pocket, and it's there in case I cannot access my concealed holstered pistol, or in case of a malfunction.

The accuracy potential of a j frame interests me however and I want to get good with it just to prove a point. I'm primarily a hunter then competitor so this is a new world for me.

Do not confuse self defense shooting with shooting at targets at the range. Step one is the draw, probably while moving, wasting no time. Step two is hitting the target several times as quickly as possible while achieving combat accuracy. It's a matter of balancing speed and precision.

Think no more than 1.5 seconds for the draw, and three or four hits within less than a second after that. "Hits" means shots into an area about the size of an upper chest at a distance within about five yards.

St. Louis has been going nuts recently so hopefully if I ever need it a 642 will be enough.

Last night was a particularly a bad one here.

You will likely never need it. But if you do, you will need to be able to present quickly, shoot fast, hit, and shoot as many times as it takes.

A 642 may be enough.

Or not.

 

[ACP]

I agree with everything Kleanbore just said regarding real life engagements vs. range time.

I will add that you can always carry two 642s, like me. Same ammo, same recoil, same sights, same trigger pull, same grip. Or a S&W 65 with a 642 backup.

I believe I have also carried a 1911 or a BHP with a 642 backup at different times in the past.

But for me, OWB carry is a rarity. It's mostly pocket carry, hence the brace of j-frames.

 

[Tallball]

Self defense - my snub 38

Handgun shootout - my CZ75

Civil unrest, gang battles, alien invasion, etc - my semiautomatic rifles and lots of magazines

 

[AK103K]

I agree with everything Kleanbore just said regarding real life engagements vs. range time.

As do I.

I also think that once you come to the realization, youre no longer "target shooting", guns like the 642, or other small pocket pistols, become seriously lacking, especially if you consider two or more active opponents. One burst basically empties the gun. If youre lucky, you got one down. If there are others, what now?

For a last ditch, third line BUG, they might have a place, first line, main or only gun, better you than me.

 

[ljnowell]

Sorry but the line has to be drawn and everyone draws it somewhere.

To me the thought that a jframe is insufficient for a conceal carrier is ridiculous. We aren't police officers. We aren't under cover DEA agents. Carrying a full load out all the time like you are going into battle isn't necessary.

Sometimes I carry a Glock or 1911 but most of the time I carry a j frame and a speedloader or two. I certainly don't feel under gunned.

 

[HB]

Basically I agree with all of the above posts in response to my choice. I've survived the statistically most dangerous part of my life without a gun (I'm 23). Using common sense, looking at my surroundings, the occasional shove and RUNNING have helped me make it thus far. Its as simple as picking which route to walk home sometimes.


I can't carry a belt gun at work and I doubt I would out in most circumstances out of convenience. For me a j-frame hopefully is enough because I doubt I'll carry much else. Belt guns seems to be a slippery slope because if I've got a glock 26 why not a 17? At that point I will likely leave the gun at home.

All this being said I'm taking my CCW class Monday and I have no experience carrying a gun. I know myself and I do have plenty of experience in daily life however. Most of the violence here is not random. I don't sell drugs or hang out in such areas with people that do. That being said I refuse to be shot or beaten to death for my wallet. I'll happily toss it to said attacker but around here they prefer to shoot you or stomp you first.

If you guys ever see me shoot my j frame empty please give me a hand.


HB

 

[DWebb]

To me the thought that a jframe is insufficient for a conceal carrier is ridiculous. We aren't police officers. We aren't under cover DEA agents. Carrying a full load out all the time like you are going into battle isn't necessary.

Nobody goes looking for battle wearing only a pistol. A CCW doesn't go looking for battle, but sometimes it finds us anyway. Two of my friends honeymooned in New Orleans and had to flee because of Katrina. They got out in time, but if they hadn't? They would have wanted more, not less. I don't aim for the bare minimum that might be needed. What has all my preparedness cost me? Some minor inconvenience.

 

[AK103K]

Sorry but the line has to be drawn and everyone draws it somewhere.

Draw it where you wish, just be realistic in where you draw it.

To me the thought that a jframe is insufficient for a conceal carrier is ridiculous. We aren't police officers. We aren't under cover DEA agents. Carrying a full load out all the time like you are going into battle isn't necessary.

Just out of curiosity, what makes your average citizen any different than anyone else, once the action starts? Other than they are more likely to have less training, and their opponents even more aggressive towards them, both of which even more emphasize the need for a more realistic gun, how will things be any different?

You dont get to pick or choose what comes. You do get to choose what you carry. If you feel the need to carry a gun, why would you carry anything less than what will give you the best chance at "most" situations, not just the one in your head?

I can't carry a belt gun at work and I doubt I would out in most circumstances out of convenience. For me a j-frame hopefully is enough because I doubt I'll carry much else. Belt guns seems to be a slippery slope because if I've got a glock 26 why not a 17? At that point I will likely leave the gun at home.

"Hopefully is enough" isnt very confidence instilling to me.

Let me ask this, what handgun do you shoot the best with, when you have to quickly draw it when surprised, and while moving and shooting? Once you figure out what that is, then you can worry about how youre going to carry it.

Most of the smaller "pocket" guns, are not as easily deployed, especially under stress, and are not as easily shot, while doing so "energetically". What aggravates things even more, they are quickly empty, in just a burst or two.

Ive carried all manner of big and little guns, and in all manner of ways, and other than maybe actually having my hand on a gun in my pocket, or in something in my hand, Ive never been able to get the smaller guns into action faster than my full/mid size guns, concealed on my belt.

This is actually a very simple exercise to work out too. Get a buddy or two together and a couple of airsoft guns, and try it for real. Airsoft is a great help at proving/disproving things.


Oh, and the choice between the 26 and 17, thats easy, you choose both. I did. Thats why my 642s only seem to get shot in practice twice a month or so, to stay familiar with them. My hand hates me on those days too.

I don't aim for the bare minimum that might be needed. What has all my preparedness cost me? Some minor inconvenience.

Yup. And after a short while of living with it, none at all.