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Zaydok Allen
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I think they are comparable, but there are a lot more grip options for a K frame. Hence my interest.
S&W K-22 and Model 18 owners........talk to me.
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22-rimfire
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I think you're on the right track and I would choose the M-17 Smith or if you like stainless, the M-617. The combat grips you frequently see on the M-18 (4") are probably too small for you, so you would need to find larger grips. IF you want a 4" gun, I'd go with the M-617. I actually prefer the 4" for most things as I am not really into precision shooting with a 22 revolver and the 4" is easier to carry in the woods/field.
Good 22 revolvers are my thing.... the Colt Trooper Mark III would also fit the bill and is a solid 22 revolver and over built. The collector thing has affected their pricing where as they used to be priced comparably to the M-17. I won't suggest other Colts due to the values attached to them these days. I'd go with a Smith for one you're going to shoot.
Good 22 revolvers are my thing.... the Colt Trooper Mark III would also fit the bill and is a solid 22 revolver and over built. The collector thing has affected their pricing where as they used to be priced comparably to the M-17. I won't suggest other Colts due to the values attached to them these days. I'd go with a Smith for one you're going to shoot.
bhk
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My model 18 is by far my favorite revolver.
Stephanie B
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+1 right there. I have a Ruger 22/45 which is an excellent shooter, but if I had to only have one .22, my 17-3 stays.
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Zaydok Allen
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Good info guys and thank you all for the advice. Keep it coming.
And thanks to Driftwood for the detail. It's always appreciated.
And thanks to Driftwood for the detail. It's always appreciated.
oneounceload
member
I also own a 17-3, 6", TT, TS, TS. It has very tight cylinders and is accurate. That said, I shoot my MKII bull barrel better but I'm keeping both anyway.
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Zaydok Allen
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I have a stupid question for you folks. In perusing online, I see 17-3's listed as K-22's and others not. The ones I'm looking at all have heavier barrels and more or less look just like the 17-3 Driftwood has listed above.
What exactly makes a K-22 a K-22 and not a 17-something? Is it a target hammer spur, trigger, and Coke bottle grips?
What exactly makes a K-22 a K-22 and not a 17-something? Is it a target hammer spur, trigger, and Coke bottle grips?
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aarondhgraham
Member
What exactly makes a K-22 a K-22...
I'd be interested in knowing this myself.
Aarond
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I'd be interested in knowing this myself.
Aarond
.
Driftwood Johnson
Member
Well..................a lot of times folks call a Model 17 a K-22, just like a lot of times folds call an M&P a Model 10. And they are usually technically wrong.
The simple answer is that the K-22 was introduced in 1931. It was a 22 caliber target revolver built on the K frame, hence the name. They were popular with outdoorsmen, and they made ideal police training guns because of the light recoil and inexpensive ammunition. In 1957 S&W changed over to a model number system. Prior to that time various revolvers had names such as Military and Police, or 44 Hand Ejector, or K-22, K-32, K-38, etc. In 1957 changing completely over to model numbers, the K-22 became the Model 17. Dash numbers indicate different engineering changes that took place over time. Also, when they changed over to the model number system Smith began stamping model numbers on the frame under the cylinder crane. Prior to that time most Smiths did not have any kind of identifier on them as to what model they were.
Now, to get more detailed, the first K-22s were called the K-22 Outdoorsman. (K-22 First Model). Here is an excellent example. This one was made in 1935. Notice the tapered 6" barrel without a rib on top. Notice the tiny adjustment screws in the rear sight. Notice the grips, these are called Service Grips, they do not cover the frame up to the 'knuckle' on top of the grip. This revolver also has the old 'Long Throw' hammer. And of course, it is a five screw revolver, four screws holding the side plate on and one screw in front of the trigger guard for the spring and plunger that operate the cylinder stop.
You can refer to the photos I posted earlier showing the top of the rear sight and the front sight on my other K-22. Notice that the rear sight and top strap are rounded in profile, with the sight blending smoothly into the top strap.
For a short time, starting in 1940 and ending in 1941, Smith and Wesson introduced the K-22 Masterpiece. (K-22 2nd Model). The chief differences were the modern Micrometer click type rear sight was introduced, and the the hammer was changed to the short action type. The K-22 2nd Model retained the tapered 6" barrel of the 1st Model.
After WWII S&W reintroduced the K-22, but collectors refer to this one as the K-22 3rd Model. Also known as the Pre-Model 17. Note: according to collectors, only the post war K-22s are called the Pre-Model 17. This holds true with the M&P Pre-Model 10 too. The main difference from the previous models was a barrel rib was introduced. Early 3rd Models had a slightly tapered barrel, later versions had a straight barrel with no taper. Inside the new hammer block was employed. In 1955, the upper side plate screw was deleted, making the gun a 'four screw'.
In 1949 Smith & Wesson introduced a 4" barreled version of the K-22, calling it the K-22 Combat Masterpiece. This was the precursor to the Model 18.
In 1957, the Model 17 appeared. Quite similar to the post war K-22. Six inch barrel was standard, blue finish was standard, Magna grips with S&W medallions, 1/8" or 1/10" Patridge front sight and the Micrometer click adjustable rear sight. A couple of widths of hammer were available and a couple of different trigger styles.
Here are two views of my 1975 era Model 17-3. Notice the different rear sight, straight barrel with rib, Magna grips, Three Screw frame (one hidden under the grips and the screw in front of the trigger guard is gone), and short throw hammer.
Here is a list of Engineering Changes for the Model 17.
1957: stamping of the SN on the frame
1958: Introduce 8 3/8" barrel
17-1 (1959) Change extractor rod, right to left hand thread
17-2 (1961) Delete trigger guard screw, change cylinder stop
17-3 (1967) Relocation of rear sight leaf screw
1968: Delete diamond grips
17-4 (1977) Move gas ring from yoke to cylinder
1982 Eliminate pinned barrel
1986 Introduce 4" heavy barrel with serrated ramp on ramp base in place of the Model 18
17-5 (1988) New yoke retention system/radius stud package
1989: Model discontinued for Model 17-6 full lug version
17-6 (1990) Full lug barrel with new yoke retention system
1993: Discontinue 8 3/8" barrel
17-7 (1994) Drill and tap frame, change rear sight leaf, change extractor
1996 Model 17-7 discontinued for introduction of 10 shot alloy cylinder version
Note: a lot of these changes were carried across the board on many models, not just restricted to the Model 17
P.S. This is what my Model 17-3 looks like on the inside. You can see the modern hammer block is in position.
And here is an exploded view of all the parts.
The simple answer is that the K-22 was introduced in 1931. It was a 22 caliber target revolver built on the K frame, hence the name. They were popular with outdoorsmen, and they made ideal police training guns because of the light recoil and inexpensive ammunition. In 1957 S&W changed over to a model number system. Prior to that time various revolvers had names such as Military and Police, or 44 Hand Ejector, or K-22, K-32, K-38, etc. In 1957 changing completely over to model numbers, the K-22 became the Model 17. Dash numbers indicate different engineering changes that took place over time. Also, when they changed over to the model number system Smith began stamping model numbers on the frame under the cylinder crane. Prior to that time most Smiths did not have any kind of identifier on them as to what model they were.
Now, to get more detailed, the first K-22s were called the K-22 Outdoorsman. (K-22 First Model). Here is an excellent example. This one was made in 1935. Notice the tapered 6" barrel without a rib on top. Notice the tiny adjustment screws in the rear sight. Notice the grips, these are called Service Grips, they do not cover the frame up to the 'knuckle' on top of the grip. This revolver also has the old 'Long Throw' hammer. And of course, it is a five screw revolver, four screws holding the side plate on and one screw in front of the trigger guard for the spring and plunger that operate the cylinder stop.
You can refer to the photos I posted earlier showing the top of the rear sight and the front sight on my other K-22. Notice that the rear sight and top strap are rounded in profile, with the sight blending smoothly into the top strap.
For a short time, starting in 1940 and ending in 1941, Smith and Wesson introduced the K-22 Masterpiece. (K-22 2nd Model). The chief differences were the modern Micrometer click type rear sight was introduced, and the the hammer was changed to the short action type. The K-22 2nd Model retained the tapered 6" barrel of the 1st Model.
After WWII S&W reintroduced the K-22, but collectors refer to this one as the K-22 3rd Model. Also known as the Pre-Model 17. Note: according to collectors, only the post war K-22s are called the Pre-Model 17. This holds true with the M&P Pre-Model 10 too. The main difference from the previous models was a barrel rib was introduced. Early 3rd Models had a slightly tapered barrel, later versions had a straight barrel with no taper. Inside the new hammer block was employed. In 1955, the upper side plate screw was deleted, making the gun a 'four screw'.
In 1949 Smith & Wesson introduced a 4" barreled version of the K-22, calling it the K-22 Combat Masterpiece. This was the precursor to the Model 18.
In 1957, the Model 17 appeared. Quite similar to the post war K-22. Six inch barrel was standard, blue finish was standard, Magna grips with S&W medallions, 1/8" or 1/10" Patridge front sight and the Micrometer click adjustable rear sight. A couple of widths of hammer were available and a couple of different trigger styles.
Here are two views of my 1975 era Model 17-3. Notice the different rear sight, straight barrel with rib, Magna grips, Three Screw frame (one hidden under the grips and the screw in front of the trigger guard is gone), and short throw hammer.
Here is a list of Engineering Changes for the Model 17.
1957: stamping of the SN on the frame
1958: Introduce 8 3/8" barrel
17-1 (1959) Change extractor rod, right to left hand thread
17-2 (1961) Delete trigger guard screw, change cylinder stop
17-3 (1967) Relocation of rear sight leaf screw
1968: Delete diamond grips
17-4 (1977) Move gas ring from yoke to cylinder
1982 Eliminate pinned barrel
1986 Introduce 4" heavy barrel with serrated ramp on ramp base in place of the Model 18
17-5 (1988) New yoke retention system/radius stud package
1989: Model discontinued for Model 17-6 full lug version
17-6 (1990) Full lug barrel with new yoke retention system
1993: Discontinue 8 3/8" barrel
17-7 (1994) Drill and tap frame, change rear sight leaf, change extractor
1996 Model 17-7 discontinued for introduction of 10 shot alloy cylinder version
Note: a lot of these changes were carried across the board on many models, not just restricted to the Model 17
P.S. This is what my Model 17-3 looks like on the inside. You can see the modern hammer block is in position.
And here is an exploded view of all the parts.
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aarondhgraham
Member
Thanks Driftwood,,,
That was a very informative post,,,
It answered my questions very handily.
Aarond
.
That was a very informative post,,,
It answered my questions very handily.
Aarond
.
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Zaydok Allen
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Indeed!
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Zaydok Allen
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Well, after a lot of perusing on gunbroker, considering people's posts in here, and Driftwoods detailed technical answers, I still have that warm and fuzzy feeling when I look at old K-22's and pinned model 17's. That 17-3 Driftwood has shown up top seems appealing. I don't really want a full lug gun for something with no recoil and range work so I'm going to cross the 6" 617 off my list and look at 4" 617's or K-22's if I find an original one in good shape that is affordable, or most likely I'll hunt down a 17-something.
There's a lot of stainless guns in my collection. I don't have any intention of carrying this gun, just babying it and putting holes on paper. So some highly polished blue steel is what my eye keeps coming back to.
Thanks all for the input. I'll reawaken this thread when one of my Gunbroker bids works out.
There's a lot of stainless guns in my collection. I don't have any intention of carrying this gun, just babying it and putting holes on paper. So some highly polished blue steel is what my eye keeps coming back to.
Thanks all for the input. I'll reawaken this thread when one of my Gunbroker bids works out.
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My shooting buddy ran across a 17-9 recently, and got it for cheap, NIB. An old dude had bought it, never fired it, and died. Widows offer this kind of things for sale just to get them out of the house. Anyway, it's a 10-round, all black, with black rubber grips.
Probably the most fun handgun I've shot at the range in a year or so. It was incredibly accurate and precise. At 50', it held the 10 ring from a rest. I'm 69 and he's 71, so not the steadiest hands or clear eyesight, but that revolver was doing the job for us. We ran a couple hundred rounds through it, and I offered to double his investment in it, and he only grinned. And put it into his gun rug.
Probably the most fun handgun I've shot at the range in a year or so. It was incredibly accurate and precise. At 50', it held the 10 ring from a rest. I'm 69 and he's 71, so not the steadiest hands or clear eyesight, but that revolver was doing the job for us. We ran a couple hundred rounds through it, and I offered to double his investment in it, and he only grinned. And put it into his gun rug.
Another little clarification.
The Call sight had a gold bead. It was discontinued in a short time and replaced with a less expensive stainless bead which was designated the "Bright sight"
You should also be aware that the Mdl17 is an exact mate to the Model 14 which is a .38 special. You will soon begin to feel the need to acquire one of those too.
Also be aware that if you get the K-22 that there is the accompanying .38 version there too. You are about to step out onto the slippery slide..
You've been warned.
The Call sight had a gold bead. It was discontinued in a short time and replaced with a less expensive stainless bead which was designated the "Bright sight"
You should also be aware that the Mdl17 is an exact mate to the Model 14 which is a .38 special. You will soon begin to feel the need to acquire one of those too.
Also be aware that if you get the K-22 that there is the accompanying .38 version there too. You are about to step out onto the slippery slide..
You've been warned.
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aarondhgraham
Member
You've been warned.
This is a truth,,,
But it won't do a dang bit of good.
Once you own one rimfire K-frame,,,
The compulsion to get it's centerfire twin is powerful.
That's precisely the reason I haven't bought a Model 17,,,
I know my will is weak and it would soon be joined by a Model 14.
This from the owner of:
Model 15/18 pair
Model 36/34 pair
Model 36/34 snubby pair
It's also why I've been hesitant to buy a nice Model 10,,,
I know I would dip into my retirement to buy a Model 45 (like this one) to match it.
Aarond
.
Radagast
Member
Don't forget the K32 / Model 16
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Zaydok Allen
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The obsessive need to own pairs and complimentary guns is a constant danger. I don't know that there's anything to be done about it.
I went to the range yesterday and slung 350 assorted 9mm, 38 specials, and 357's out of three different guns. Afterward I handled a 6" model 617. It felt more nose heavy than I wanted in a 22 revolver that will produce little to no recoil. It more or less confirmed that a model 17 or K-22 with a half, or no lug, or model 18 is what I want.
I like a nose heavy gun, but on something that generates some recoil.
I went to the range yesterday and slung 350 assorted 9mm, 38 specials, and 357's out of three different guns. Afterward I handled a 6" model 617. It felt more nose heavy than I wanted in a 22 revolver that will produce little to no recoil. It more or less confirmed that a model 17 or K-22 with a half, or no lug, or model 18 is what I want.
I like a nose heavy gun, but on something that generates some recoil.
SwampWolf
Member
As much as I like older, blued, Smith K-frame revolvers (I have a few...), really nice ones have been getting pretty pricey. I'd give a lot of thought to getting a new Model 617 instead (if getting both is out of the question). My 617 is a well-made, accurate revolver having a superb trigger-almost as nice as the K-22/Model 17...
), really nice ones have been getting pretty pricey. I'd give a lot of thought to getting a new Model 617 instead (if getting both is out of the question). My 617 is a well-made, accurate revolver having a superb trigger-almost as nice as the K-22/Model 17...
Now, those are pricey! Makes a Model 17 look cheap.
I've been looking for one for over a year. Except for on line units, I have not seen one locally to fondle before buying.
Granted it is personnel preference, but I agree for the most part.
I like the balance of a 4" with a full under lugged barrel, but not a 6".
Saleen322
Member
The Smith is a fine revolver. However if you get an opportunity to get a Dan Wesson 22 reasonable, don't pass it up. Super accurate and interchangeable barrels.
I've had an SP 101 since they first came in the 8 shot version. I loved that gun for making holes in paper at the range. Then fate brought me to a Smith & Wesson 17-4 Modified with a Heavy Target Barrel, Bo-Mar Rib & Winged front sight. I don't know who did the modifications but I do know that my Ruger has been neglected since the first time I shot the S & W. I'm still on the look out for an as issued 17 as I would like to compare the two.
The 6" bull barrel and rib make this gun very front heavy but the small holes in the center of the target take my mind off that.
The 6" bull barrel and rib make this gun very front heavy but the small holes in the center of the target take my mind off that.
BlindJustice
Member
S&W Model 17 K-22 Target Masterpiece
S&W Model 18 K-22 Combat Masterpiece
The 18 has a 4" bbl. black ramp front sight
W&E adj. rear, with standard hammer & trigger
The 17 is usually 6" Bbl but some 8 3/8" are out
there, Target Hammer & Target Trigger, front
sight is Patridge W&E adj. rear sight.
My first hand gun was a Model 18 in the mid '60s.
square butt frame should take larger grips
Randall
S&W Model 18 K-22 Combat Masterpiece
The 18 has a 4" bbl. black ramp front sight
W&E adj. rear, with standard hammer & trigger
The 17 is usually 6" Bbl but some 8 3/8" are out
there, Target Hammer & Target Trigger, front
sight is Patridge W&E adj. rear sight.
My first hand gun was a Model 18 in the mid '60s.
square butt frame should take larger grips
Randall
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