S&W K-22 Question

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Colt Smith

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Ok, just picked up a very minty 50's era K-22. Serial number, and screw on the front of the trigger guard verifies this. Here's the question:

The Supica & Nahas Standard Catalog of Smith & Wesson, 3rd Ed., pg 121, states that the post-war 3rd model K-22 "has 6-groove forestrap and backstrap on the frame". Mine has a 10-groove forestrap and backstrap which I don't believe they started until the M17 variants. Does the 10-groove sound unusual or did they make a lot of the 3rd model K-22s that way?
 
I know I shouldn't ask this (put it down to lack of sleep) but who in heck cares? I have a K-22 that I have fired thousands of rounds through, and I have no idea how many grooves it has.

Jim
 
Well, at the risk of drawing sarcasm, I have heard S&W collectors talk about this business with the grooves and if I recall correctly it seems it is not a hard and fast rule as to how many to expect on a particular model. Very few features found on S&W revolvers associated with specific models or eras are ironclad. There always seem to be exceptions popping up.

I also have to wonder if it's a big deal? Does that make me unknowledgeable?
 
Well I own a 6" barreled K-22 S&W with a screw in front of the trigger guard and pinned barrel, it has 10 groves on the grip of the back strap, if that helps. LM
 
Hi
I will try to answer this. Early Post War K-22's being they started making them again in 1946 had six grooves, on their back straps and barrel ribs. A design change to a slightly heavier barrel, and wide grip frame in the very early 1950's changed the barrel and grip frame ribs to the wider 10 groove style. This design change was done to make the Masterpiece series all weigh the same when changing calibers so there was no weight felt diference between the Three Masterpiece models. The change occured with the K-32 & K-38 as well and the early ones are refered to as narrow barrel rib models. :) Revolver fanatic
 
Just looked at the two I have left and my 1947 has 6 groves and my 17-2 has 10 or 12 I did not count them but its more thats for sure. Traded off my 1955 one but do not remember what it had.
 
I thought I could add something here, but it's all covered. But the take-home lesson here is that nothing is hard and fast in the SCSW. Not to detract from them; they have created a great reference, but there are always exceptions. They will be the first to admit it if you read their introduction and appreciate the humility and humor they use in their writing. For a "gun guide," it is amazing literate and intelligent.
 
Like Jim Keenan, the Old Fuff never bother to count the serrations, but I will point out that the switch to heavy-ribbed barrels on the K-series of Masterpiece revolvers occurred around 1949 or 1950, with wider ribs being added to the K-32 and K-38 only. The purpose was to make all of the K-frame target revolver weigh the same. Light-ribbed/center fire revolvers remained in the catalog until 1953. Then the wider ribbed barrels were the only ones offered. The changeover to wide barrel ribs started around serial No. K 75,000 and the narrow ribbed/center fire barrels were gone at around No. K 160,000. All of this occurred well before the switch to model numbers started in 1957.

I don't have any idea if the grip frame serrations were changed within this time frame (1949 - 1953) or not. Jim Supica - who is likely better informed about this issue then I am - says the change was made during early Model 17 production, and that would make it 1957 or later.

While S&W went to some lengths to make the weight of target models identical, they didn't do the same with the K-38 Combat Masterpiece (later model 15). which retained the narrow ribbed barrel still used on the K-22. Apparently police officers didn't want to lug around the extra weight. That said, a few Model 15's were made with the heavy barrel. I have no idea why.

Saxon Pig is right, in many matters of finite details, Smith & Wesson was, and still is, inconsistent.
 
Thanks to everybody for your input. The issue of whether the gun has 6 grooves or 10 is unimportant. Yes, the gun will still shoot great after thousands of rounds through it irrespective of the aesthetic details of the gun. But that's not the point. I have a basic curiosity about the things that interest me and that makes me want to learn as much as I can. Replying to a post just to say "who cares?" is not High Road. If YOU don't care then move on to a post that interests you more like "which snub should I use for SD?" or " can I use .38spl in my .357?" An answer saying " details were inconsistent" would be enough but I certainly appreciate the extra information many here have offered. The details aren't always important but it helps satisfy my thirst for knowledge. It does something else too. Like myself, there are a lot of people out there who don't know as much as the more experienced and educated members. The more knowledgeable I and others become the better equipped we are to pay it forward. Old Fuff and others in the community who are generous with their time and encyclopedic database do a great service to the firearms enthusiast and community. I don't know as much as others but I'm learning and it gives me the chance to inform and educate others.
 
It's an open forum. You throw a question out there you have to expect all sorts of answers, from the serious to the frivolous. Some folks just want to have fun. Insulting retorts to the jokesters won't change anything and tends to be counterproductive.
 
My 17-2 has 10 grooves and 6 holes in the round gizmo that turns around when I squeeze the trigger. I would rather have 10 holes in that round thingy.

And I agree with Saxonpig, many gun guys just wanna have fun.
I enjoy this forum for the extensive knowledge and wisdom, the humor, the candor, good natured ribbing and occasional sarcasm, same way I enjoy the camaraderie at the range.

It's 2 deg C but I think I'll go and breath in some fresh mountain air and burnt 700X.:)
 
I have a K-22 that was made in 1947 and it has ten groove grip straps.

I think they stopped six groove straps at the time the went into war production.
Most all post war, except the immediate post war guns where the company was using up stock on hand, will have ten groove grip straps.
 
My K-22 from 1947 has six grooves and a tapered barrel. I think that is Smith and Wesson had any sense, they would be making these types of 22 revolvers today. There is nothing like them. They now make only shadows of these superbly functioning and beautifully designed weapons. Be happy that you have one, no matter how many grooves the backstrap has. :)
 
I think that is Smith and Wesson had any sense, they would be making these types of 22 revolvers today. There is nothing like them. They now make only shadows of these superbly functioning and beautifully designed weapons.

Hello Teuthis
You struck a nerve with me on this subject and it is worth discussion. I am afraid we will never see this Happen. S&W has either dropped the Old processes or retired the real Factory workers who were Gun smiths not bean counters. The Bluing for one has been changed from the old fashioned carbona Blue to the newer Dip & Ship of todays world. With all the Government Regs. on hazordous Waste it would be far too risky to go back to it, or even consider it but there was not a more Deep black shinny Bluing in my mind.



The newer process later used in the 1980's and forward time span looks Blotchy and Lighter in color shade. All of the Internal action Parts were Hand Lapped and fitted until around The mid 1960's. They had Two Processes used on all Building of their revolvers but They dropped the soft fitting process which involved taking raw parts and making them fit as a rough fit on all their revolvers prior to the final Hard fitting process which involved Buffing, filing, and final fitting before final inspection.



This Soft fitting process is why we see the Older revolvers having serial numbers on the face of the cylinder, the rear of the extractor, the under side of the Barrel flat above the extractor cut out, the Bottom of the grip frame, the crane area on the main frame and even the right grips panel to insure during the final Hard fitting process all the original parts got back with the revolver they were fitted for as nothing had been standardized at that time and all the parts were hand fitted that were serial numbered.



This Process was time consuming and costly, but to me this Time span exhibited some of the smoothest actions and closest tollerences ever seen on any production revolvers, Bar None. The newer MIM Process used today saves a lot of time, wastes a lot less steel, and replaces many fine craftsman with machines doing all the work. Just the wood alone on these Early Pre-War S&W revolver's was all made in House and was Gorgeous as they used Carcassion Walnut which in essense was the Heart wood of fine Older Huge Black walnut trees, that never get close to that size before they are harvested today, so that style of Deep grain definition is not seen any more.



later they switched to a standard Black walnut, that to me, closely resembled a Grade Three 2X4 Purchased at home Depot as far as Grain definition and quality goes. This Carcassin Walnut had Heavy Pronounced Black streaks running through it, that gave the wood a striking contrast like no other wood used since. They even changed the Line's per inch of Checkering as a cost cutting measure. it took far more time to cut 18-21 Lines per inch in their grips than what replaced it as 12-14 Lines per inch.


We Later saw the Panels did not come close to Matched grain or color & Through time S&W found ways to cut labor costs as they are in business to Make money not attract collector Interest, so Sadly we will never see the Old process come back into play and even if they could we more than Likely could not afford to pay for it unless you were of course Bill Gate's in today's fast paced Care Free throw away world.. :D Revolver fanatic
 
Hi, Colt Smith,

Please permit me to apologize for my previous remarks. Frankly, I had no idea that the number of those grooves was important to anyone, even though I have been involved in the minituae of collector guns myself.

Also, I guess I never think of the K-22 as a collectible; as an old timer, it is just a fun shooter.

Hi, Revolver Fanatic,

I fully sympathize, but we are unlikely to see those guns again. If it is any consolation, back when those guns were made, S&W fans were lamenting the demise of the "long action"; a few deeply regretted the passing of the workmanship shown in the top-breaks.

In fact, today's computer controlled machines can turn out parts that fit so well that hand work is not necessary. I, like you, regret the passing of an age, but the sad fact is that if S&W made guns today as they did then, none of us could afford them and the few sales to the wealthy would not allow them to stay in business.

Without that mass production, our gun industry would be like that in England, making a few beautifully crafted guns for a few wealthy customers. Since those few would not have enough political clout to prevent passage of gun bans, guns would soon disappear.

So, while I admire the workmanship in the old guns, I can't see them coming back. Today's mass produced and relatively inexpensive guns may seem less beautiful, but the are supports for our freedom.

Jim
 
Hi,

I just wanted to apologize to Jim and others here for over-reacting to remarks in response to my OP. I need to lighten up a bit I think.
 
I have a K-22 that was made in 1947 and it has ten groove grip straps.
My 1948 has what looks like a six groove front strap. Good 'ole S&W - a landscape of exceptions punctuated with the occasional rule.

With all the Government Regs. on hazordous Waste it would be far too risky to go back to it, or even consider it but there was not a more Deep black shinny Bluing in my mind.
Good observation. While there has no doubt been a pantload of changes related specifically to lowering manufacturing costs I'd bet a least a couple were done with a view to EPA or OSHA neither one of which even existed in 1948.

The case colors on the 1948 K-22 are more vivid by orders of magnitude than latter examples despite being older. I don't know if S&W used the potassium cyanide process or something else but I doubt firing it up in 2009 would go unnoticed by the regulators.

This alternative from finishing.com seems worse than cyanide at first blush.
I'm at the Lassen Community college for gunsmithing and we recently redid our recievers. Mine came out beutiful, amazingly well compared to others. What I did was heat mine in a furnace with 50/50 charcoal/bone (From Brownells ) mixture to 1333-1375 for one hour then quenched it at around 1340. The quench contained, nitre salts, pine needles, pine cones (ground up), horse poo, bird poo, bird nest, and my roomates THC loaded urine. We also had an air hose hooked up to the bottom of our quench tank so there was water circulation. Colors came out spectacular....
EEeeeuuu
:D
 
The real answer is that S&W had two cutters a 6 groover and a 10 groover.

Depending on which one was on the machine and which was getting sharpened you either got 6 or 10.

Or maybe they had two machines and depending on which was down for maintenance......


I will pull out my 1956 4 screw, and my 1960 4 screw and count the serrations and get back to you all...
 
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