S&W K-38 ? + M&P/M-10 question

[kyoung05]

Ok so I am going to take up reloading, and am starting off with .38spl 148gr WC's and possibly 158gr SWC's. I already have a GP-100 6" that I can shoot them out of, but I want/need a .38spl only gun. While the GP-100 is accurate, tames what little recoil they have, and shoots them just fine, I would like something a little smaller/more handy to shoot. I also have a 2" M-10 snubby, but it is harder to be really accurate with it and would like something full size. Ok, so here is my question:

I had been considering a 4" M-10 (preferably skinny pencil barrel because I hear they balance better) purely for a range gun. However, recently, I saw a K-38 in near new condition at a local shop going for $475, possibly down to $450. My question is, how much better are these than standard M-10/M&P's? I noticed it had larger wood grips (square butt I think versus the round butt on all the M-10/M&P's I've seen). I also noticed it had different sights, adjustable in the rear and a notch-like front sight. It seems to give a slightly better sight picture than the half-moon front sights on the M&P's. Are they a whole lot more accurate as to warrant a nearly $200 premium over standard M-10's? Is the trigger pull any better? Also, realize that being in CA, I am VERY limited in my selection of older S&W's, since unless they were in the state before a certain date, I will not be able to buy them. Even then, only PPT's are allowed on them. The one I saw didn't have a model number on it, even when I flipped the cylinder out, my 2" M-10 has "10-7" inscribed on the frame. The K-38 had no such number. Could it be the pre-M-14?

As for the the standard M&P/M-10's, how would they be for a target gun? They had a 6" tapered barrel one in good condition for $275. It had the half-moon front sight. How is the sight picture with those? I usually shoot at an indoor range which is somewhat low-light.

Any advice/recommendation would be appreciated. Thanks!

 

[wundudnee]

I'm sure no expert, but after the M&P third model of 1905 they were offered in 4, 5, 6 and 6 1/2" barrels and round and square butt versions. I think the target models were the only ones with adjustable sights. All the standard model M&Ps had fixed sights. I jus got a M&P 1948-1950 vintage, square butt, fixed sights with diamond stocks. I shot it today and it seemed to be off to the left a little. Maybe it was me, but with adjustable sights it would be a moot point. Mine has the 1/2 moon front sight and the 5" tapered barrel. It has a very good trigger pull and locks up well. They are good solid revolvers.

 

[kyoung05]

Oh, I'm sure the M-10's and M&P's are great revolvers, but I was more interested in how much better the K-38's are. I really liked the K-38 I handled, but I don't know if it should command the $200 premium over the M&P. I also plan on shooting mainly 148gr WC's out of them. How do the fixed half moon sights of the M&P's shoot with these bullets? Are they hard to get a good sight picture? The one I am looking at has a 6" tapered barrel (the M&P that is, not the K-38). I will check out the other gun store near me that may have older S&W's, as the other gun shops only carry newer guns.

 

[ulflyer]

If you're lucky, maybe you can find a M-15 which has a 4 inch tapered barrel with adjustable sights. Its also called the "Combat Masterpiece" and is a superb shooter with exc trigger. I got one recently at a gun show for $225.

 

[Johnny Guest]

Some bits of information for your consideration.

You already have the 2" M&P model 10 and the 6" GP100. You may well have use for a good four-inch piece.

Seriously, though - - While your Ruger GP100 6", at 45.2 oz, is indeed a beefier revolver than a K frame S&W would be, the size is practically the same. The S&W K38 weighs 38.5 oz with 6" bbl.

The K38 Masterpiece became known as the model 14 when S&W began stamping the model number on the frame in 1957. It was a highly refined target revolver, matched in weight with the K22 and K32 revolvers. Like the M&P series, the K38 was built on the K-frame. It had a broad rib along the top of the barrel, micrometer click rear sight and a patridge type front sight. Most, if not all, also had an adjustable trigger stop. In keeping with the specialty market, this model was claimed to have a smoother action and lighter trigger in both single action and double action mode.

As a practical matter, the already-tuned K38, with long barrel, clearly defined sights, and semi-custom trigger, than the standard police service M&P. In point of fact, if locked into a machine rest, the M&P had intrinsic accuracy essentially identical to the K38.

In 1949, S&W introduced the Combat Masterpiece, essentially a K38 with a narrow-ribbed 4" barrel and 32 oz weight. This provided cops and others with a convenient holster piece with target refinements, and it was a great success. It was later offered in a 2" barrel as well.

The S&W Military & Police with 4" barrel was "The American Standard" police sidearm for decades, especially after it edged out Colt's Official Police model. Essentially unchanged since 1905, it was rugged enough for service use, heavy enough to handle most .38 Special loads well, while remaining light enough to be easily portable. While hobbyists and target shooters decried the absence of an adjusable sight, people who carry a sidearm in deadly earnest know the value of a sturdy revolver WITHOUT easily damaged sights.

M10 4" standard barrel weight 30.5 oz --
M10 4" HB weight 34 oz. --- introduced in 1959.

You mention "balance." This is a highly subjective perception. As Lil' Sister Tamara pointed out in the past, the bull barrel was probably more a cost cutting production measure than anything else, but there were some real benefits: The HB variant tames the recoil of any load, and the extra 3.5 oz out at the front end adds "feel" and "pointability."

Best of luck on your choice.
Johnny

 

[thatguy]

Technically any K frame revolver in .38 Special is a "K38." Do you mean the Model 14 when you say K38? IMHO $450 is VERY high for a used 14. A really nice 14 from the 1970s or early 1980s is a beautiful piece and these can be found for $250-$300. I bought the one pictured last year for $165 (but that was a good deal). I also have a 15 and like them both well enough to keep both.

A Model 15 from the same era will usually have a 4" barrel and a ramped front sight. Otherwise about the same. The 15s run maybe $50 less than the 14s. Do you want a 6" target/sport revolver or a 4" sport/defense/some target revolver?

 

[kyoung05]

I would love a 4" K-frame .38spl, but being in CA, any blued Smiths are hard to come by. They are not approved for sale on the CA DOJ "list", so the only way to get them is to find them being sold by other people (PPT's or consignment), who have had them in the state before the "list" went into effect. This is probably why there is a premium on them. For instance, I saw a M-25 in fairly good condition being sold for $1150, which I am sure someone will pay, because if they miss out on it, chances are they may never find one in the state again. I really liked the way the M-14/K-38 looked and felt. I guess it didn't "feel" a whole lot lighter than my GP-100, but it just had more finesse. I suppose the 6" M&P would feel just fine too. The particular M-14 I saw wasn't actually an M-14, as it was made before they were numbered. Would this add any addition value to it? I will check the other gun shop on my next day off to see what they have in stock. Hopefully they'll have an M-15.

 

[MoeMentum]

I have two Model 15's ( K38) Combat Masterpieces. Great pistols. I bought them new almost 30 years ago, and they are great shooters, If you can find one, buy it.

 

[thatguy]

My heart goes out to anyone in CA who wishes to exercise their Second Amendment rights... because they CAN'T!

 

[kyoung05]

Yea, no kidding about being in CA. I may just bite the bullet and pay the money for the K-38, as it's a really nice looking gun and I may or may not find another one if I pass this one up. I can always look for another M&P (or, if that one is still there too later on...) and pick that up. I hope to run across a M-15 too, but it seems to me that most people who have these older blued Smiths tend to hang on to them.

 

[Majic]

Technically any K frame revolver in .38 Special is a "K38."

Actually only the Target Masterpiece (later called the M14) and the Combat Masterpiece (later called the M15) are the only revolvers named the "K38".

 

[TooTaxed]

For what it's worth, my old 6" barreled K-38, Ser. No 1402, has neither K-38 nor M14 markings. I shoot it about 95% of the time, the rest shared by my two Colt Officers Match .38s...which I should probably sell... It LOVES 148-gr wc or swc.

How old do you think this one is? I bought it second hand about thirty to forty years ago.

 

[Majic]

TooTaxed,
You have a 1947 model. The serial number should have a "K" in front of it.
Before 1957 the revolvers had no model numbers and the names were not marked on them. If you had the box it would say it was a K38 Masterpiece.

 

[TooTaxed]

Thanks, Majik! It's nice to have the information.

 

[kyoung05]

The one I am looking at also has a similar serial number to yours (K 14xxxx). Are these earlier ones worth more? I noticed on the consignment page that the seller had originally listed it for $300-325, but later changed it to $450-475. Are the increasing in value? Anyways, I really like the gun, so even if I end up over-paying for it, I'll probably be kicking myself later down the road if I pass it up. If it's still there when I get my cable bill (in about 1.5wks to use as proof of residency), I'll probably get it. That is, unless that 6" M&P really starts to grow on me, at $200 less too.

 

[desmark6]

Just want to point one thing out to you that has helped me in my quest for old beautiful smiths in California. Any Smith and Wesson that is at least 50 years old qualifies as a curio and relic "C+R", any revolver that qualifies as a C+R can legally be brought into California since C+R guns are all exempt from the CA DOJ Approved List. Hope this helps you as much as it has me, after finding out about this loophole if you will, I have been able to aquire several old smiths from out of state. Good luck.

 

[thatguy]

Majic, I don't believe K38 was ever an official name for any gun. S&W used their monikers, like M&P, Target Masterpeice, etc.

K38 was a nickname applied by shooters and while it seems mainly to reference the M14, and to a lesser extent the M15, I have heard many people use K38 to describe any K frame pistol in 38 caliber.

 

[Majic]

I don't have a picture of mine, but I borrowed this from another site.
Picture of the box of a Target Masterpiece which shows the factory labeled them the "K38 Masterpiece".
http://www.smith-wessonforum.com/cgi-bin/sandwcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=13;t=018610#000000

In my travels I have heard of nothing other than the Combat Masterpiece or the Target Masterpiece referred to as a "K38". I don't think the factory called them Target Masterpieces, just Masterpieces. The Combat Masterpiece was a factory name though.