S&w Lock Problem Solved!!
- Thread starter ceadermtnboy
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.38 Special
Member
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- Sep 15, 2006
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That's the Jerry Miculek gun, yes?
The lock doesn't bother me too much on the modern guns. On the classics, though...
I just bought a Model 21 in .44 Special, and the lock was very, very hard to take on that gun. C'est la vie.
The lock doesn't bother me too much on the modern guns. On the classics, though...
I just bought a Model 21 in .44 Special, and the lock was very, very hard to take on that gun. C'est la vie.
nicholst55
Member
I'm kinda surprised that nobody has come up with an aftermarket 'S&W debris-hole filler' yet. Kinda like the Glock plug, AR-15 gapper, Colt Series 80 hole-filler (whatever they call them), etc.
steveracer
Member
Haven't you guys removed yours yet? It comes right out. I think a nice way to fill the hole is to put a peened slug in there and pound it flush, then polish to match the frame.
But the locking mechanism comes out in like 30 seconds with no hassle. I've got a little bag full of them.
Steve
But the locking mechanism comes out in like 30 seconds with no hassle. I've got a little bag full of them.
Steve
vermilion
Member
Why would there be a risk of a lawsuit? It does not alter the gun in anyway. It has nothing to do with carrying the gun safely. It is NOT a gun safety like say a 1911's grip safety. Its basically to lock it so no kids can get it and shoot themselves or someone else. I don't think a bad guy is gonna wait around for you to unlock it. 
steveracer
Member
The lawsuit thing is crap, and has always been. It's an Ayoob unicorn. Good luck finding any successful case studies. It is, and always has been, total and complete crap. It makes the gun look bad, so fix it! Guys remove the mag disconnect from BHPs all the time, and the ILS from Springfield 1911s all the time, and this should be no exception.
This topic has been talked to death. I always give the same advice and get royally ripped for it.
All I can say is that anyone who thinks a missing or altered safety device on a gun used in a shooting won't be an issue in court should consult an attorney for a professional opinion. I have asked several lawyers about this matter and they all said the same thing. They would smile broadly if they found out that the guy they were suing had disabled the gun's SAFETY DEVICE (and that's exactly how the lawyer will explain it to a jury made up of people who have never touched a gun in their lives).
If it hasn't happened yet, it's only because such a modified gun hasn't been used in a shooting resulting in litigation.
If you think that I (and the attorneys) are full of BS then go ahead and remove the safety. If you don't mind losing a huge lawsuit then go ahead. If you don't mind spending $50,000 - $100,000 in legal costs defending yourself in court then go ahead.
It's your choice.
All I can say is that anyone who thinks a missing or altered safety device on a gun used in a shooting won't be an issue in court should consult an attorney for a professional opinion. I have asked several lawyers about this matter and they all said the same thing. They would smile broadly if they found out that the guy they were suing had disabled the gun's SAFETY DEVICE (and that's exactly how the lawyer will explain it to a jury made up of people who have never touched a gun in their lives).
If it hasn't happened yet, it's only because such a modified gun hasn't been used in a shooting resulting in litigation.
If you think that I (and the attorneys) are full of BS then go ahead and remove the safety. If you don't mind losing a huge lawsuit then go ahead. If you don't mind spending $50,000 - $100,000 in legal costs defending yourself in court then go ahead.
It's your choice.
Vern Humphrey
Member
It should be easy to fill that hole in a variety of ways. Personally, I object to paying extra for something I don't want (a lock), and then paying more to get rid of it.
There is always a possibility of a lawsuit. For example, lets say someone has removed the lock, and later someone else gets control of the gun. I'll go further and say that person is a teen who takes it to school and plugs somebody - or a lot of somebody’s. You don't think a lawsuit couldn't come out of this?
Admittedly the core issue here would be the question of secure storage, or lack of it. But a bottom feeding attorney would grasp any handle he could find to push his case.
While the Old Fuff isn't going to lose any sleep over the issue, he also isn't going to be foolish. In the highly unlikely event that something did happen a lock wouldn't be an issue.
Because the handgun would have never had one.
Vern Humphrey
Member
I would also be concerned the hole-filling device might jiggle loose and tie up the gun in an embarassing moment.
Vern Humphrey
Member
That's my approach. If I don't like, I don't buy. If they want my money, they have to offer me what I want.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
All you really needed to take out is the "Flag & Spring" part.
The thing that fills the hole is perfectly inert without the flag & spring in place.
rcmodel
ceadermtnboy
Member
This was a gun that I really liked when I bought it. It was a made only in 2005 and I loved the balance and sight plane of the 5" barrel. It has since turned into a project gun. I did a home tuning job compliments of Jerry Miculeks video on tuning S&W actions. I decided to remove the whole lock because it annoyed me more than anything else. I then ordered a gold bead front sight and a thumb latch from SDM FABRICATING with a better gripping surface. I decided to leave the hole because it does not bother me. It is one of my favorite to shoot because I set it up myself, and it shoots 2-3 " groups @ 25 yards and has a 8lb double action trigger pull. I pretend that I am as fast a Jerry Miculek and have a ball shooting it. I am not worried about lawyers as It is not my carry gun, and if someone breaks in my house then they came looking for trouble. I have other pretty, older S&W guns like my model 520 NYSP N Frame, but the point of the thread was that I did not let the lock stop me from enjoying a fun firearm!
don95sml
Member
Old Fuff said:
Old Fuff's solution is the best one, and only one of my Smiths has the lock. But I would toss another "what if" into this discussion. I believe most people whose gun has the lock have UNLOCKED it, and would be hard pressed to tell you where the key is now located. So if a teen were to steal that unlocked gun and take it to school with disastrous consequences, seems to me your liability exposure is about the same even though you have not "disabled" the lock.
The authorities might or might not take notice of the lock's condition. But they would sure notice if it was missing altogether.
Looking backward toward past school shootings, storage security has sometimes been an issue. Any attorney that was involved would be especially interested in a missing lock. How much they could make of it, one way or the other would depend on the circumstances. Regardless, if there never was a lock there is no "lock issue" to contend with.
vermilion
Member
Alright.. take off the sideplate and guts, grind down the nub of the internal lock, reassemble. Lock is still there and everything just doesn't "lock"
Sport45
Member
But S&W is off the hook because the lock was there. That's what matters to them. S&W is concerned about their reliability, not anyone else's. I think your liability exposure would go up dramatically if the prosecuter discovered you left the thing unlocked or removed the lock altogether. We are supposed to secure our handguns from folks that would use them unwisely.
Doesn't the second sentence contradict the first? Sounds like a safety to me. It's just not as easy to manipulate as most.
Riss
Member
Find the correct size tap. Run a tap through it and either use a carbon steel or stainless plug and plug the darn thing. To hell with the lock already.
Master Blaster
Member
Before my current job I worked in the insurance industry as a claim handler, major claims. Product liability lawsuits mainly. I reemember one suit against a major electric tool manufacturer. It hinged on the fact that the tool didnt have a safety device that other tools on the market had. It was a very old model of electric drill. The suit alledged that because one other brand of drill made by another company in 1959 had double insulation, my insured was negligent for not manufacturing their drill with double insulation instead of a grounded case. The year of the suit was 1992, the drill was made in 1959, and the owner who was killed by electrocution, had defeated the grounding feature by replacing the original grounded cord with a lamp cord. They won the suit when it was the owners fault, for replacing the cord, and laying in the wet grass. We appealed, and settled based upon contributory negligence which the jury had failed to consider, for a much smaller sum.
The point is you can be sued for anything, if you use an old gun when you own a new one with a lock they could sue you for that. In a self defense shooting the lock is irrelevent becuase you intended to shoot the plaintiff.
In my state I dont have to worry about this because unless you are arrested and found guilty you can't be sued for a self defense shooting. Period. We have a law that is very specific about that.
In an accident it could be an issue, but like the drill case above, your old guns with no lock could be just as much of an issue.
If I have a trigger job that could be an issue, If I belong to a gun club or two and practice weekly that could be an issue, If I partcicpate in IDPA IPSC that could be an issue before an uneducated jury (practcing to be a killer) If I take Massaad Ayoob's class doesnt that show that I am training to be a killer as well? Carrying hollow points could be an issue too, so could FMJ.
JMHO YMMV
plexreticle
Member
- Joined
- Oct 8, 2006
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- 1,240
Just don't buy a gun with a useless stupid looking lock.
RecoilRob
Member
If someone steals your gun and uses it, and they come back to you about it missing the lock. "What? They stole my gun and took the lock off too??"
Of course they HAD to! It was locked and wouldn't shoot, of course! Simple...
Of course they HAD to! It was locked and wouldn't shoot, of course! Simple...
vermilion
Member
Like Master Blaster said you can be sued for anything, anywhere, at anytime. Welcome to the Free America.
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