S&W lock removal

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I'm just curious. Most of the problems that I have heard about involving the internal lock on new S&W revolvers seem to be in the lighter framed models when shooting hotter loads. Does this seem to be the case or am I only hearing about those particular problems and not others? I carry a 642, not one of the scandium frame models and I usually have Federal Hydra Shok 110gr JHPs loaded in it, although, I am picking up some Speer Gold Dot 135gr +Ps today.

___________________

"Phydeaux, bad dog....no biscuit!"
 
All that is nessessary is to remove the flag only. The lockwork can stay right where it is. I took both flags out of my 2 guns. Just take the flag out and you should be all set. You don't need to grind off anything as read above. The flags are the problem nothing else, just remove the flag and put lockwork back together, no more chances of the flags engageing. If you decide to sell the gun, just reinstall the flag.
 
I doubt the removal of the lock would be an issue in self defense.

It would be an issue only in the event of an accidental discharge....god forbid a child was to get a hold of it. Never mind the lawyers! Just the personal guilt and grief, as well as any injuries associated with such a tragedy!!!
 
1. If you have some gung-ho anti-gun prosecutor he would have the gun examined and if a safety device was removed or disabled he would tell the jury... 12 people HE carefully selected because they have absolutely no knowledge or experience with firearms... all about how you are some Rambo wannabe who disabled a safety device to make the gun more deadly. Yes, WE know it's a crock but the jury might buy it.

2. After killing a violent criminal the family of the dead perp hires a good lawyer and HE subpoenas the gun and has his own expert examine it. The disabled safety will be noted in the report and once again... 12 people totally ignorant about guns... get seated on jury and they might give the grieving family of the scum everything you own or will ever own because of your wanton disregard for gun safety. Yes, it's a crock, too, but the jury might buy it.

I had my wife (the law school student) do a search some time back for case cites about civil cases where modified guns were an issue and she found several and I guess I should have kept the info but I didn't. Let's just say that the chances are very remote but not impossible. Let's also say that I prefer not to give anything to a lawyer to get his teeth into me. If you don't like the lock buy a gun without one.
 
A good shoot is a good shoot and a bad shoot is a bad one. Show me a single case where modification altered a good shoot to a bad and I'll happily re-evaluate that.
 
SaxonPig said:
If you don't like the lock buy a gun without one.
Click to expand...

And then get sued because I could have bought a gun that did have a lock. Doesn't really matter to me. All the guns I own that originally had an "extra" safety device, such as a lock, or magazine safety, no longer do. I removed the ILS from my Springfield, the integral lock from my Taurus, and the magazine safeties on my Smith 1076, Browning HiPower, and Bersa 223. And all of my other guns that didn't come with an "extra" safety have been modified in some manner also. Life is too short to use guns that don't suit me, so I won't spend my time worrying about getting sued because of a lock that had no bearing on whether I meant to pull the trigger or not.

SaxonPig said:
If you have some gung-ho anti-gun prosecutor he would have the gun examined and if a safety device was removed or disabled he would tell the jury... 12 people HE carefully selected because they have absolutely no knowledge or experience with firearms...
Click to expand...

The defense attorney gets to help in that jury selection and God help me if my attorney isn't smart enough to get at least a few jurors that don't care about the stupid lock in the middle of either Alaska or West Texas.
 
I had my wife (the law school student) do a search some time back for case cites about civil cases where modified guns were an issue and she found several and I guess I should have kept the info but I didn't.
Click to expand...

And in every case the shooting was an accident that the lock or safety would have prevented, was caused by home gunsmithing (like a rem 700 with a trigger job that fires when its owner trips shooting the hunting partner walking ahead in the back) had it not been disabled or had it been engaged by the guns owner.
 
if youre getting sued over "the lock" during a "good shoot" any competent attorney can get that notion tossed out on a suppression hearing before it ever goes to the 12 dolts in the box.
 
I wonder if massad ayoob has any posts kicking around about a slightly modified gun helping to convict someone....
 
I wonder if massad ayoob has any posts kicking around about a slightly modified gun helping to convict someone....
Click to expand...
Considering his magazine articles are the basis for much of the thinking along these lines, I'll bet he does...

-- Sam
 
I wonder if massad ayoob has any posts kicking around about a slightly modified gun helping to convict someone....
Click to expand...

It seems like much of what I have read by Massad Ayoob recommends that no modifications be made to a firearm used for defense. That way a prosecuter will at least not be able to bring the legality of the firearm into question be it real or imagined.

______________

"Phydeaux, bad dog....no biscuit!"
 
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He also recommends only factory ammo for personal defense, I guess based on his extensive legal background. He's got a lot of opinions, anyway.
 
Not that it matters, but if I were in the position of being on the opposite side of a shooting, my lawyer would have that gun stripped and evaluated. If it were found to be altered, he would then make the case to the jury that the safety was removed, thus showing direct intent of looking to do harm. That the shooter couldn't wait to discharge the weapon to do harm and did not want any safety devices to get in the way of his intent to maim and kill.:)
kid
 
I wonder if massad ayoob has any posts kicking around about a slightly modified gun helping to convict someone....
Click to expand...

Not that I know of, but he has one about removing the lock.

Although I really don't see the importance of the lock in a defensive shooting. The purpose of the lock is to make the gun inoperable when you are not there. The lock would be have to be off if you needed the gun, just like an external trigger lock would first have to be removed.

Now, if you had disabled the lock and a kid picked up the gun and injured someone with it, then I can see cause for worry!
 
And be prepared to get your ass sued off by a sharp lawyer if that gun is ever used in a shooting. I know most folks around here disagree but trust me, you shoot someone and he or his survivors try a civil suit, that gun WILL be examined and the missing lock WILL be noted in the report to the attorney and he WILL make an issue of it before the jury who will not understand that the lock was a storage lock and not really a safety. You will be portrayed as some sort of lunatic for making the gun unsafe by removing a safety feature and the jurors will be carefully selected for their utter lack of knowledge about guns. They very well may fall for the lawyer's line.
Click to expand...

Hahahahah
 
Ayoob has in the past said that he had no case history of reloads being used against someone in court, it was just his opinion. There was one case of a clean shoot with reloads coming up in court but the gun was of a unique caliber which required the owner to reload. To my knowledge no one has been able to cite another case.

I still maintain that evidence cannot be disassembled for a fishing expedition, there would need to be "cause" to look for something. In the case of a SD shoot if the gun worked it's probably a non-issue, they have it in their hands and the owner admitted to using it. A trigger lock would have no bearing.

JMHO and I'm sticking to it.
 
That's a good question.

Will a qualified gunsmith work on and then return a gun to its owner with a safety device removed?
 
Sure. I just read about a current article in one of the gun magazines where the author had the lock removed, the hole welded closed, and the gun refinished; sorry, but I dont remeber the authors name and the magazine was not specified. A poster on the S&W board went as far as having his gunsmith do the same to the lock and replace the MIM parts with forged; that's not a simple parts swap either. It would probably be cheaper to find an old Smith, but they are getting scarce.
 
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