S&W M&P 10mm - little birdy whispers...?
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Walt Sherrill
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The NC Highway Patrol uses the S&W M&P in .357 SIG. They wanted something that had more punch when shooting into windshields and motor blocks.
Unhappily, Patrol troopers -- mostly at the range, and sometimes during their periodic qualification sessions -- have been having a LOT of problems with the S&W M&P .357s, and the Patrol is apparently looking to replace their weapons. S&W has been working with them, but can't seem to get them to perform reliably; the Patrol does NOT want to just convert to .40 S&W. (The guns are giving them a lot of ejection-related problems; the guns can be quickly cleared, but things aren't the way they ought to be.)
If state's budget money wasn't so tight they would probably have replaced them already, likely with SIGs. (They're running their patrol cars a LOT longer than usual, too -- almost doubling the mileage before replacement. Those ponies -- Dodge Chargers -- will be tired when they're sold.)
I wonder if the problems with the .357 will affect the same basic design if they move up to 10mm?
Who knows -- maybe they'll have it worked out in the near future.
Chuck Perry
Member
Don't like hearing that. My own duty gun is a 357 M&P. No issues with mine. I assume they have tried different ammo to resolve the problem? How about aftermarket extractors, like APEX?
Walt Sherrill
Member
Chuck Perry said:
Sorry, I don't have any answers. Except that it's been an issue for some time, and they have been working with S&W experts to resolve the problem. (It's strange that THEY are having problems and others, you included, are not. I wonder if there was something done DIFFERENTLY about the guns The NCHP is using?)
I don't expect to see a large government agency using aftermarket parts, even though that might make sense, and I don't think it's really something that simple. Ammo was an issue, early on -- as they had some sort of problems with the cheaper (but equally powerful non-HP) practice ammo. They don't seem to think the current problem is an ammo issue.
The Troopers' guns typically aren't shot THAT MUCH, so it's arguably NOT a problem of the hot round damaging the gun.
IF I learn any more, I'll pass it on. (This topic is being discussed on a local NC/SC forum, where a number of participants have links to the Patrol. But feedback there is erratic. My son, who is a State Trooper, says he's heard about the issue and knows that several senior officers have experienced the problem. He has not had problems using his weapon, either in practice sessions or during the periodic qualifications.) I don't think anyone has answers, at present, and I've not heard a clear definition of what's really going wrong.
tommy.duncan
Member
I own 3 10mm pistols. (2Colts and 1 Glock). I love the accuracy and the higher capacity. I am always looking for my next new 10mm pistol!!
Glock's been doing the 10mm AUTO ... successfully for how many years now?
Large & small.
Plus, the CZ people have recently teased us with this possibility - an "experimental" 10mm CZ:
http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIK6cFPevmE
So seeing an M&P in 10mm wouldn't be at all improbable, provided the critical parts are engineered correctly (beefed-up) and the gun is properly sprung.
Gun-makers area always watching the handgun market for new ways to increase revenue, including the "niche" markets, like the "retro" market they tapped a few years ago for old-school 1911s and some S&W revolvers.
Hardly what most handgun consumers buy, but these guns still sell to a certain segment. Caliber-niches are part of this sub-market and, while small, are still sources of profit. There's certainly a niche market of dedicated 10mm who'd jump on an M&P chambered in this cartridge and cross-over shooters from other calibers who'd buy a double-stack 10mm that's not a Glock.
Coming from a different direction on this issue, ... the Sept 2013 Am. Rifleman carried a positive review of the Turkish-made SARs K2 in .45acp. Built off the CZ-pattern, it's a big all-steel DA/SA using a double-stack mag.
After seeing that CZ "10mm" vid above, and noting what appeared to be the use of upgraded mags with the new (flat) floorplates that Mecgar makes for Tanfoglio's 10mm Witness-line, I ordered several 10mm Witness mags from Midway. EAA is the importer for both the Witnesses and, now, the SARS .45 K2, and there were already rumors that EAA has received some 10mm K2s from Turkey.
Well, the Meccgar mags arrived and sure enough the package was marked "10mm - Witness/K2." They easily loaded 14-rds, although they might take 15, but I didn't want to muscle the last one in. Why would they also be marked "K2" if that gun in 10mm wasn't coming to these shores in the near future? They ran just fine in that "experimental" CZ 10mm - so, in theory, that's 3 - count 'em - 14-rd all-steel 10mm pistols of similar design.
Point being, with the Turks offering one, it's quite possible that other gun-makers (Ruger?) are considering bringing out something in a 10mm autoloader down the road.
Stay tuned, ...
Large & small.
Plus, the CZ people have recently teased us with this possibility - an "experimental" 10mm CZ:
http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIK6cFPevmE
So seeing an M&P in 10mm wouldn't be at all improbable, provided the critical parts are engineered correctly (beefed-up) and the gun is properly sprung.
Gun-makers area always watching the handgun market for new ways to increase revenue, including the "niche" markets, like the "retro" market they tapped a few years ago for old-school 1911s and some S&W revolvers.
Hardly what most handgun consumers buy, but these guns still sell to a certain segment. Caliber-niches are part of this sub-market and, while small, are still sources of profit. There's certainly a niche market of dedicated 10mm who'd jump on an M&P chambered in this cartridge and cross-over shooters from other calibers who'd buy a double-stack 10mm that's not a Glock.
Coming from a different direction on this issue, ... the Sept 2013 Am. Rifleman carried a positive review of the Turkish-made SARs K2 in .45acp. Built off the CZ-pattern, it's a big all-steel DA/SA using a double-stack mag.
After seeing that CZ "10mm" vid above, and noting what appeared to be the use of upgraded mags with the new (flat) floorplates that Mecgar makes for Tanfoglio's 10mm Witness-line, I ordered several 10mm Witness mags from Midway. EAA is the importer for both the Witnesses and, now, the SARS .45 K2, and there were already rumors that EAA has received some 10mm K2s from Turkey.
Well, the Meccgar mags arrived and sure enough the package was marked "10mm - Witness/K2." They easily loaded 14-rds, although they might take 15, but I didn't want to muscle the last one in. Why would they also be marked "K2" if that gun in 10mm wasn't coming to these shores in the near future? They ran just fine in that "experimental" CZ 10mm - so, in theory, that's 3 - count 'em - 14-rd all-steel 10mm pistols of similar design.
Point being, with the Turks offering one, it's quite possible that other gun-makers (Ruger?) are considering bringing out something in a 10mm autoloader down the road.
Stay tuned, ...
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