S&W M1917 Snubby

[Michael Tinker Pearce]

Recently someone posted a S&W Custom Shop Model 625 with a 2" barrel on a gun page I frequent and people there lost their minds, calling it stupid and saying it would get 400 fps velocities and all kinds of crap. It was similar to this one, only fancier.


I suspected it was maybe not so stupid. I had a Brazilian-Contract M1917 languishing in the safe and got to thinking. After checking that a replacement barrel was available to me I decided to do a little science.

I have 200gr. JHP defensive loads for my Detonics Combat Master which has a 3-1/2" barrel and a year or two back I tested it. I got a velocity of 848fps, and when fired into Clear Ballistics Gel through four layers of denim the bullet's average expansion was .640" with 14" of penetration. Good baseline.

I chopped the barrel of the 1917 at 2" and chronographed it with the same load. I got an average velocity of *drumroll...*

...841 fps. Huh.

So how can this be? Simple. BBTI.com tested the loss of velocity from a revolver's cylinder. gap and found out it was a lot less than people had supposed. Semi-auto pistol barrels are measured from the muzzle to the breech. If you measure the modified M1917s barrel from the muzzle to the breech it's just over 3-1/2". My particular M1917 has an extremely small cylinder gap (less than .0015".) Given the separation of the tests in time and conditions (temp, humidity etc.) and other variables I can't say the load performs any differently between these two guns. In other words it will work just fine from a 2" barrel. Who knew?

I found I liked the look of the M1917 with the 2" barrel and decided to keep it that way. Now front sight, bobbed hammer, polished the serrations off of the trigger, new front sight and some antler grips and an American Holly grip adapter.

Recoil is definitely a thing, but it's manageable and the gun shoots quite well. After a bit of tuning-up the trigger is a buttery-smooth 8.5 lbs. Anyway, here's the pics of my 'new' gun.

 

[horsemen61]

AWESOMENESS

 

[Yukon_Cola]

Looks great

 

[franco45]

Love your style. The Youtube channel is great too.

 

[Obturation]

It's better than it should be! Enjoyed the video and I'll be honest, I kind of want one now.
If it's not too terribly long, could you elaborate on how you properly position and attach the sight on a project like this? Also, do you use cold blue to touch up that parts you reshape ?

Awesome, keep it up Tinker, I'm always excited to see what you've been up to.

 

[Michael Tinker Pearce]

It's better than it should be! Enjoyed the video and I'll be honest, I kind of want one now.
If it's not too terribly long, could you elaborate on how you properly position and attach the sight on a project like this? Also, do you use cold blue to touch up that parts you reshape ?

Awesome, keep it up Tinker, I'm always excited to see what you've been up to.

I locate the front sight using the TLAR system- (That Looks About Right.) After decades as a full-time knife-maker I see in thousandths of an inch, so I can't really elaborate on that. Sorry! I use Oxpho blue to touch things up; it's the most durable cold-blue I have found. Most likely I'll be stripping and rust-bluing this gun eventually.

 

[Ohen Cepel]

I would suggest doing the Fitz mod to it, but I know you did one of those recently. Nice work! Just went to your channel to see more.

 

[mcb]

Nice work on the conversation. But I really dislike Snubbies in general, conversations or not. All but one of my revolvers is 4-6.5 inch barrel length. I would love to have a 1917 (S&W) but I want them original barrel length.

 

[nofendertom]

Love it ! I really like the abbreviated grip filler. Can the cylinder be shortened, for say, a .45acp full WC, and the barrel screwed in, for a little bit more barrel
length. Although, this might be a lot of work for a little gain.

 

[bannockburn]

Tinker

Another well thought out "snubby" masterpiece!

 

[Michael Tinker Pearce]

Love it ! I really like the abbreviated grip filler. Can the cylinder be shortened, for say, a .45acp full WC, and the barrel screwed in, for a little bit more barrel
length. Although, this might be a lot of work for a little gain.

It wouldn't really make any noticeable gain I don't think.

 

[Col. Harrumph]

Looks like some engraving on the back of the hammer, but all I can make out is an upside-down "PA."

 

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

IIRC the appeal of a 45 ACP snubby is that big bullet, not velocity.

 

[Jonesy814]

I locate the front sight using the TLAR system- (That Looks About Right.) After decades as a full-time knife-maker I see in thousandths of an inch, so I can't really elaborate on that. Sorry! I use Oxpho blue to touch things up; it's the most durable cold-blue I have found. Most likely I'll be stripping and rust-bluing this gun eventually.

I was a cabinet maker for years. Had a friend stop by my shop one day. As I was fitting something up, I said it was off by a 64th of an inch. My buddy questioned that I could see a 64th ....yep and I'll trim it without measuring & marking it too. On another occasion I was about to fit some cabinet doors and said the cabinet was a 32nd out of square. My buddy looked at me and the cabinet like I was crazy. I handed him the tape measure and pointed out in which direction I thought it was off. He measured, confirmed and shook his head. When you do it all the time, a16th of an inch looks HUGE, and a 32nd or 64th is visible. When you don't work with measurements like that all the time it seems almost impossible to see. That being said I understand your statement about seeing in thousandths, but stand in awe none the less. Your 1917 snubby is awesome!

 

[cfullgraf]

Recoil is definitely a thing, but it's manageable and the gun shoots quite well. After a bit of tuning-up the trigger is a buttery-smooth 8.5 lbs. Anyway, here's the pics of my 'new' gun.
View attachment 1120664 View attachment 1120665 View attachment 1120666 View attachment 1120667

Nice conversion.

I have a 3" Lew Horton Model 624 (44 Special) that I do not like the recoil of. It's manageable as you have found with your 1917 but my 4" Model 624 is much more pleasant to shoot.

But, I'll agree that managing recoil is a personnel thing.

A personnel note, I feel a snub large frame revolver is some what a non-sequitur. If you are carrying a large frame revolver, barrel length is not much of an issue.

The main reason I have the 3" Lew Horton Model 624 is that it is a bit of a rare bird in the Model 624 line up.

Anyway, nice work and enjoy.

 

[entropy]

Another extremely well done MTP conversion, and on an M1917. Close to my dream gun, a 3" Model 1955.

 

[aaaaa]

Very nice and glad you pointed out the difference in barrel measurements between autos and revolvers. Definitely need to take that into account when comparing. My pocket J-frame revolver sounds a lot more impressive with a 3.5" barrel than the stated 1&7/8 inches.

 

[Archie]

Observations: I have a similar revolver. It is a S&W, but it was removed from collection status to shooter by a prior owner. I do like the idea of a short barreled revolver, but cut the barrel right in front of the ejector rod nodule on the barrel. (I fancy this gives a full length ejector throw, and I prefer the balance.)
Barrel length: From a bit of reading on firearm pressures and ballistics, the 'ballistic' length of any firearm is from the base of the unfired bullet to the end of the muzzle. The distance the pressure is actually working on the projectile. So in reality, the actual barrel length in a revolver is just a bit longer than popularly shown and in pistols just a bit shorter. A four inch normal revolver is measured for a holster maker, not a ballastician. (I use the terms 'ballistic length' and 'holster length' to differentiate.)
Recoil: Recoil is normally the reaction in movement of the arm to the power of the projectile - all other factors being equal. (Yes, a small, light hand gun can be very unpleasant to shoot, but a nasty recoiling .32 ACP is still a rather weak cartridge.) So is is no wonder a cut down .45 ACP is a bit (perhaps a bunch) more offensive in recoil. That is because the round is far more powerful than many other smaller cartridges. So, one must put up with a bit of discomfort. One doesn't shoot such a revolver with full loads for entertainment.
One finds putting 'better' (better hand fitting) grips on the revolver makes recoil a bit easier on the hand. (Shooting most any revolver with the small 'service' grips is less than pleasant and not conducive to accuracy.)
Which leads to shortening the cylinder. This can be (and has) been done. It does make the revolver shorter. This does not weaken the arm, as the cylinder is still intact surrounding the cartridge. It also drops a bit of weight and increases the recoil. Consider also the cost of have a competent gunsmith shorten and 'finish' the cylinder, then reset the barrel.

However the idea is sound.

 

[Jim Watson]

Looks like it was a pretty nice example before it got cut up.

 

[WisBorn]

Nice work on the snubby. I am a snubby fan and am impressed by your work! I like your example between your 1911 & this 1917 with the difference in velocity or should I say no difference in velocity.

Tinker you have a knack for finding old guns and making them new treasures. Keep the videos coming.

 

[fxvr5]

Recently someone posted a S&W Custom Shop Model 625 with a 2" barrel on a gun page I frequent and people there lost their minds, calling it stupid and saying it would get 400 fps velocities and all kinds of crap.

I have 200gr. JHP defensive loads for my Detonics Combat Master which has a 3-1/2" barrel and a year or two back I tested it. I got a velocity of 848fps, and when fired into Clear Ballistics Gel through four layers of denim the bullet's average expansion was .640" with 14" of penetration. Good baseline.

I chopped the barrel of the 1917 at 2" and chronographed it with the same load. I got an average velocity of *drumroll...*

...841 fps. Huh.

Apparently you can get pretty good velocity with no barrel.

https://gunsmagazine.com/discover/who-needs-a-barrel/

 

[StrawHat]

Looks like some engraving on the back of the hammer, but all I can make out is an upside-down "PA."

For a time, S&W marked patent information on the back of the hammers (and triggers). Those are usually sought after by collectors or restorers.


Kevin

 

[Tallball]

Nice work! I carry 44 or 45 snub revolvers sometimes. The recoil is NBD if you practice enough.

 

[Michael Tinker Pearce]

For a time, S&W marked patent information on the back of the hammers (and triggers). Those are usually sought after by collectors or restorers.


Kevin

In this case it 'Brazil Pat.,' which has been on the hammer of all of the few Brazilian-Contract guns I have seen.

 

[Waveski]

I read the original post without out noting the author. When I was finished I said to myself “This must be from that Tinker guy”.

It was an easy guess.