S&W Model 19... weak?

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Mr_Flintstone

Mr_Flintstone

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I have a 4” S&W Model 19-3 that I inherited a while back. At that time, I did some quick research, and what I found said that the Model 19 wasn’t the strongest of the S&W models, and it was suggested to only use 158 gr .357 Mag loads, or better yet, use .38 Special.

I have only run about 20 magnums through this revolver. Mainly because I don’t like the loud report and recoil, and I can shoot .38 Special more accurately in it. I typically shoot .38 special +P loads.

Now to my question... Is the Model 19 really a weak model? Does it really prefer .38 Special for longevity? It probably won’t change my shooting habits with this revolver, I’d just like to know.
 
The N framed 27 and 28 can handle .357 all day. The 19 is for occasional use of .357.
Weakness is only a relative term as the 19 "Combat Magnum" is a class act. Designed with the help of Bill Jordan to give police some extra power when needed.
 
All revolvers will last longer with 38s instead of 357s. The heavier recoil from magnums is harder on a gun than 38 Specials. The high pressure rounds cause more gas erosion than low pressure rounds.

Search the web for cracked forcing cones and you'll discover that all revolver brands (Ruger, Colt) suffer from it, not just S&W K-frames.

There's a little information on forcing cones in this article:
https://www.ssusa.org/articles/2020/9/28/how-to-avoid-revolver-forcing-cone-failure/
 
Does anyone ever shoot any handgun a steady diet of .357 Magnum?

I've shot a gazillion rounds of .38 Special at medium (ICORE) and PPC (light) loads in competition. I have tried a few "pin" matches with full power .357 loads! Not a fun experience although effective!

I prefer the N Frames 45ACP for clearing the table!

Smiles,
 
JJFitch said:
Does anyone ever shoot any handgun a steady diet of .357 Magnum?
Click to expand...

Yep. That's almost all that's gone down the tube in my Ruger GP100 6". But I don't compete with it, so total round count is fairly low.

Edit to add: While the gun has not shot itself loose, the forcing cone face does have something like 50% erosion. I fired a lot of 125 grain JHPs through that gun before I learned not to.
 
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Mr_Flintstone, A weak model? No. I've had 19s, and the stainless equivalents, the 66s. I finally did wear out a 66, but it took a steady diet of I don't know how many Magnum rounds over several years. Were I intending to shoot so much .357 again, I would pick a 586/686, 27/28 or Ruger GP100. Still doesn't mean your 19 is "weak"...

In my dotage, have to admit I no longer enjoy the blast and recoil of the full Magnum loads, and shoot mostly .38 Spcl. now;)
 
My first centerfire handgun and the gun I started reloading with was a 6" model 19. This was way before the internet and I had never heard the model 19 was weak or needed to be babied in any way. So I shot every bullet weight could get my hands on at top loadings. That included many 125gr and 110gr bullets sent down the bore at max book velocities. It never hurt my gun one bit.

But what I found was that I really liked a mid range 357 load with a 158gr lead bullet in a 357 case pushed by 6.6grs of Unique. Its still my favorite load to shoot in my 357 guns. The speed should be a little over 1100fps so just below full 357 power and a big step up from a 38 Special.

I would just enjoy your new gun and shoot 357s if you want to but probably just shoot more 38s like you are already doing. You have one of the most desirable guns on the market. Pictures would be nice.

I forgot to mention that I always got better accuracy with 140-158gr bullets than light bullets so the suggestion to stick with 158gr or bullets on the heavier side is good advice.
 
I believe the L (example 586) frame came out to balance the rigidity and durability of the N frame (example Model 27) and the lighter weight and smaller size of the K frame (example, Model 19)

The ideology of back in the day was to practice with 38 specials, and carry magnums for duty or practice with them on occasion. I consider a M19 a classic, and is from the back in the day era.

The FBI settled on a 38 special +P 140 something grain hollow point semi wadcutter and correct me if im wrong, carried them in Smith and Wesson M19s and S&W M13s (another K framed smith model 19 relative)

Not all 357 Magnum ammo is created even close to equal..Heavier and slower bullets are said to put less of a beating on revolvers due to recoil impulse speed.
There are some hot 357 loads that I know will trash your Model 19 fairly quickly, and by that I mean probably 1000 rounds or less. Buffalo bore torture tested various models of wheelguns with their ammunition, and then put a disclaimer stating certain ammunition not to be used in certain models. Not a pressure issue, but simply wear and tear from recoil impulse, or possibly forcing cone erosion or cracking.
I also avoid UMC 357 125 JSP/JHP

Ive stuck to this for my handloads for smaller frame 357s. Still 357 power, just not Nuclear.
I Keep 125 grain bullets under 1300
I keep 158 grain bullets under 1200
My model 13 and 65 (basically same rigidity as 19)
are in great shape and no issues after 20 years of regular use.
 
Weak not at all, designed in the day for a carriable service weapon. Was never intended for torture tests. One of the best actions and inherently accurate revolvers you will ever find, enjoy it. If I do recall other than cracking of the forcing cone there was some gas cutting at the top strap caused by the 125 Grain bullets at the time. Two things happened, S&W came out with the L frame and all the other makers who were not in the market made sure they had thicker forcing cones and top straps on their new revolvers while ammo makers back off on loadings. Factory .357 is not the same as it was in the 60's and 70's. It will last you forever if you limit the magnum diet, use it, don't abuse it.
 
The version I have heard is that the Combat Magnum is a 38 that can fire .357s. When it was introduced in the 1950s at Bill Jordan's urging standard practice was to use 38s for practice, 357s for carry. The JHP ammo we use today was introduced in the 1970s largely by Lee Jurras IIRC, that's when the problems with that ammo started. Jeff Cooper advocated training only with service loads as providing greater realism.
 
Mr_Flintstone said:
I have a 4” S&W Model 19-3 that I inherited a while back. At that time, I did some quick research, and what I found said that the Model 19 wasn’t the strongest of the S&W models, and it was suggested to only use 158 gr .357 Mag loads, or better yet, use .38 Special.

I have only run about 20 magnums through this revolver. Mainly because I don’t like the loud report and recoil, and I can shoot .38 Special more accurately in it. I typically shoot .38 special +P loads.

Now to my question... Is the Model 19 really a weak model? Does it really prefer .38 Special for longevity? It probably won’t change my shooting habits with this revolver, I’d just like to know.
Click to expand...

It's not weak. It's an object made by man that will eventually wear out, and certain magnum loads will accelerate that wear.

One aspect of aging as a shooter is that one begins to find a different place for magnum loads. Most of us who have aged some practice with .38s, carry +Ps for defense (speaking of k-frames here), and appropriate magnum loads for handgun hunting when it meets local requirements, that is IF we hunt with a handgun. I don't, myself.
 
Anything wears with extended use. I shoot 357 out of my mid 70's mod 19. and have had no issues, then again I'm not a competitive shooter.
They are well finished revolvers, something you don't see much of now.
 
25-5: Beautiful gun & grips, and fantastic case hardening on the hammer...please tell me it's not a optical illusion due to lighting...Possibly the prettiest M19 I've ever seen. Rod
 
wcwhitey said:
Weak not at all, designed in the day for a carriable service weapon. Was never intended for torture tests. One of the best actions and inherently accurate revolvers you will ever find, enjoy it. If I do recall other than cracking of the forcing cone there was some gas cutting at the top strap caused by the 125 Grain bullets at the time. Two things happened, S&W came out with the L frame and all the other makers who were not in the market made sure they had thicker forcing cones and top straps on their new revolvers while ammo makers back off on loadings. Factory .357 is not the same as it was in the 60's and 70's. It will last you forever if you limit the magnum diet, use it, don't abuse it.
Click to expand...
Well said WCW. I couldn't improve on your post...so I won't. Rod
 
I have a 6” Model 19 that I bought around 1980. I shot mostly 158 grain full power liads in the gun over the next 4 or 5 years when the forcing cone cracked.

Besides shooting a couple boxes of ammunition every one to two weeks, the last couple years I competed in IHMSA hangun silhouette matches 3 or 4 times each summer.

S&W replaced the barrel on their dime.

Since , I got the gun back, I have not shot it much. Most of the ammunition has been 38 Special plus P level in magnum cases. But I do shoot a few magnum loads once in a while but nothing at the rate as when I first got the gun.

I’ve added a 4” and a 2-1/2” version to my collection recently and all get shot with less than full power ammunition these days.
 
JJFitch said:
Does anyone ever shoot any handgun a steady diet of .357 Magnum?
Click to expand...

I don’t know about a “steady diet,” because I don’t shoot any revolvers in competition, but I do shoot only .357 Mag. in my (non-K-frame) .357 Mag. revolvers. I find .38 Special a bit boring.
 
When people talk about the forcing comes cracking and the flame cutting issues on Model 19’s they are talking 3,500 to 4,000 rounds of hot top end loads. If you run moderate 357’s or 38’s it’ll have much extended life expectancy, probably longer than yours!
 
When the model 19 was created in the 1950's the standard 357 load used a 158gr lead bullet. In the 1970's, the police in particular were looking for better stopping power. This lead to the development of high velocity 125gr ammo, often with a copper jacket. In my opinion, the model 19 may not have been produced in its current form had those hot 125gr loads been the norm when it was developed, but you will likely never have a problem if you stick to what it was designed for
 
I have a 19-4 with a 6” barrel. I bought it a few years ago and I have come to truly appreciate this revolver for what it is. An accurate revolver with .38 Special and .357 Magnum loads. I do not shoot a lot of magnum loads and when I do they are loaded 158 grain bullets at moderate magnum power levels. I don’t shoot it to punish myself or the gun or to impress anyone with it at the range. It’s just a wonderful revolver.
 
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