S&W Model 25 .45 ACP Problems?

[LouisianaGunslinger]

I have a guy offering to sell me his S&W M25 .45 ACP revolver. He hasn't shot it much and I inspected it. The only thing he said that was "wrong" with it was that the throat were oversized at about .456, which could affect accuracy. He also said a lot of m25's were like that until some of the last ones, so it's not uncommon.

Does anyone here know much about this? How bad is the accuracy affected? As long as I can hit a paper plate at 25 yards I don't care about accuracy. Does the oversized throat affect any sort of reliability or shorten the life of the gun? I was looking to use this as a home defense piece maybe. I know I could get a 625, but I like older S&W's




EDIT: I'm sorry, my sloppy hands hit a 4 instead of a 6, and I didn't catch it till just now. I'm not very coordinated with a keyboard. The throat is oversized at .456, not .454. Heh sorry about that.

 

[Coal Dragger]

Durability and reliability shouldn't be affected with oversize throats, plus at .454 they are not as grossly oversize as some others out there.

An easy fix for this would be to find a used cylinder from another N frame gun in a smaller caliber, that is the same length, and have it reamed out to the chamber you need with more precise throats. Then all that is needed is for it to be timed to the gun.

 

[rcmodel]

Or, don't worry about it.
It will still shoot jacketed bullets more accurately then most of us can shoot it.

If you reload, use .454" lead bullets and all will be peachy keen.

I'd get it while the get'n is good.
They don't come around as often as they used too.

rc

 

[steveno]

I have a 25-5 in 45 Colt and the throats are about .454 and with either soft factory or hard cast bullets the gun shoots about 3 inch groups at 25 yards. that is about as I can shoot. 99 % of my shooting is off hand. I consider it "pop can" accurate as that is my prefered target.

 

[LouisianaGunslinger]

I'M SO SORRY i meant to put a 6 instead of a 4 at the end of .454. It's not oversized to .454, it's .456. Again, I'm sorry. Not a master at the keyboard.

 

[WC145]

Could be wrong, but I was under the impression that it was early .45LC M25's that had throat size issues, not .45ACPs. Don't think I've ever heard of an inaccurate M25 in .45ACP.

 

[243winxb]

OOPS, just looked at old data, i had a M1955 with larger throats.

 

[rcmodel]

Don't think I've ever heard of an inaccurate M25 in .45ACP.

Me neither now that you mentioned it.

We had some old-timers shooting them in 5th Army AMU center-fire competation back in the late 60's.

And some of them guys would clean your clock with you shooting a NM 1911 wad-cutter gun or S&W Model 52.

I do think the .45 Colt version was the one with the way over-size throats.

rc

 

[Coal Dragger]

Yeah..... .456 is a bit on the bad end of over sized. I'd still snap up the gun if you like it, just don't rule out the need to have it worked on later by a competent smith. Adding a new cylinder re bored to .45 ACP with minimum sized throats, and timing it to the frame shouldn't be that hard. Plus you would then have one seriously accurate M25.

 

[bikemutt]

FWIW, I pulled out my 25-2 and chambered several different brand rounds. The fitment seemed normal to me as compared to say .357/.38 and .44 mag rounds in other guns. Some chambers were a tad tighter than others but not remarkably so. Also, non-moon-clipped brass will fall out of the gun but not easily. I find the gun more accurate than I am to shoot.

If this is a friend, perhaps you could arrange a test fire? Bring a bench rest.

 

[BYJO4]

I also think you should range test it. I bet it will shoot just fine.

 

[LouisianaGunslinger]

Well, I'm more concerned about the bullet perhaps beating up the forcing cone or something, is that possible? And would that put stress on the frame? Longevity is my concern.

 

[VA27]

The gun will outlast you. Oversize throats aren't as much of a problem as undersized throats. I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[SaxonPig]

I also thought it was the 25-5s in 45 Colt with the problem but someone told me some 25-2s also exhibited this trait. Even if a bit large, I bet it will shoot better than most of us can hold.

 

[SunnySlopes]

I'm amazed that a) he even knows the dimension and that b) he considers it a "problem." I've had nimrods try to sell me mint NIB guns that looked like they'd been dropped from space. Several times. Into the ocean. And only recovered years later.

That's one honest guy. He should be godfather to your children.

Given your criteria you'll never notice a problem.

Maybe if you meticulously handloaded a hundred rounds, weighing each load, measuring and weighing each bullet, etc, and then firing them out of a ransom rest, then you might notice a difference. But I doubt it.

Buy it.

 

[Fishslayer]

One legend is that S&W did that on purpose so that nothing labelled "Colt" would be accurate in their guns.

Yes. Oversize throats are common. I have a Model of 1950 Target that leads like crazy but is very accurate. I just run Berry's plated for target.

Some get around the problem by running dead soft lead bullets and a light charge of Bullseye. The idea is that the soft lead will obdurate sufficiently to seal quickly and prevent the leading.

I've wondered if a RNHB bullet would do the same.

 

[WC145]

Well, I'm more concerned about the bullet perhaps beating up the forcing cone or something, is that possible? And would that put stress on the frame? Longevity is my concern.

If that is what worries you have a 'smith chamfer the forcing cone. I have a S&W snubbie that I had rechambered to 9mm and had the forcing cone chamfered, never had a bit of trouble.

 

[robctwo]

I recently bought two 25-2s. One from 1975, one from 1980. Very scientific throat test. Drop .451 Hornady through chambers. all drop freely. Drop .452 lead swc. All are snug with one exception. One chamber in 1975 gun stopped the bullet, but a slight bump sent it through.

25-7 .45 Colt, all snug. 25-15 "Classic", all snug, 25-13 4" Mountain Gun .45 Colt, all snug.

 

[TXSWFAN]

I know I could get a 625, but I like older S&W's

IMO OP, I'd take the 625 over the 25. Nothing at all wrong with the 25, I just think the 625 is more utilitarian.

Here are my two favorites. Both Randy Lee customs. 25-2 in .45 ACP, 625-3 in .45 LC & ACP. Four and half pound DA pull on both.

 

[ghitch75]

i too have a 25-2 and 25-5.....1975-2 shoots A LOT better than i do...1980 -5 throats are a wee bigger as said above .454.....as said get it wile the gettin' good....

 

[CraigC]

Oversized throats are not a guarantee of poor accuracy. My New Frontier has .456" throats and will shoot several loads into one ragged hole at 25yds. Even with off-the-shelf .452" cast bullets. No way to know what will happen until you shoot it.

 

[LouisianaGunslinger]

So the oversized throats don't put any extra stress on anything, like the bullet hitting the forcing cone and therefore stressing the frame?

 

[rcmodel]

No.

Thats what forcing cones are designed to do.

For instance, the old .41 & .45 Colt load always used a soft lead hollow-base bullet.

One could imagine it blowing open slightly in the loose cylinder throat, or B/C gap, then getting violent swaged back down to bore dia by the forcing cone every shot.

Thats why it is a called a "Forcing Cone" don't ca see?

It funnels or "forces" the bullet to fit the bore.
No matter what the cylinder throws at it.

rc

 

[LouisianaGunslinger]

Thats what forcing cones are designed to do.

For instance, the old .41 & .45 Colt load always used a soft lead hollow-base bullet.

One could imagine it blowing open slightly in the loose cylinder throat, or B/C gap, then getting violent swaged back down to bore dia by the forcing cone every shot.

Thats why it is a called a "Forcing Cone" don't ca see?

It funnels or "forces" the bullet to fit the bore.
No matter what the cylinder throws at it.

So then how do the oversized cylinder throats matter?

 

[VA27]

They don't, which is what we've been saying. If the throats were undersized they would swage the bullet down smaller than the bore diameter and you'd have problems with leading and rotten accuracy. With 'em oversize all you'll likely have is a little more cylinder 'flash'.