S&W Model 28-2 #22XXXX with a 6" Barrel - shaving lead

[Andrew Leigh]

I have inherited this firearm from my Dad. Due to the laws of the land this side of the pond, it has had to stay in dealer stock until licensed into my name. My brother who knows the revolver well warned me that she "spits lead" and that I need to warn shooters to my right. I have been doing research ahead of taking ownership with a view to resolving the problem.

My dad shot his own cast semi-wadcutter's with moderate target loads using local powders. He used a SAECO #382 bullet mold which is rated at 158gr. My Dad's mixture would come out at 147gr. (7% lighter) and he used a Lyman bullet sizer of 0.357". The bullets were on the harder side I assume?

Apparently, the revolver was at a gunsmith who said that the timing was spot on but that the barrel was out of alignment. Frankly I find that rather hard to believe.

After some research I was wondering if there could be lead being deposited in the forcing cone which then accumulates and gets "blown back" and out rather than lead shaving the side of the forcing cone. Unfortunately, I am not in possession of the revolver yet so I cannot do any diagnostics. It is an accurate handgun my brother says and my Dad would get very tight groups with it, so I think that apart for the "shaving lead" that the revolver operates as intended.

I was also musing on if the shoulder of the semi-wadcutter was prone to shedding lead in the forcing cone, especially as it is harder and more "brittle". Would firing some FMJ to see if that proves the point be a worthy exercise?

Any other suggestions as to common reasons for the problems and or what I could try when I finally get the revolver in my grubby mitts?

 

[AzShooter1]

I think you are right and the forcing cone needs to be looked at. You may want to get it cut to 11 º.

 

[Andrew Leigh]

Thanks, any idea of what the standard angle is? Just for information purposes.

 

[UncleEd]

Until you have it in hand and can thoroughly examine it,
I'd hate to speculate about any cure or cures it actually
needs. But yes try other bullets besides those that
apparently get shaved.

First order, of course, is to thoroughly clean it.

 

[Andrew Leigh]

Indeed, but this discussion has already sent me on a path of learning regarding forcing cones and how during quality issues some manufacturers would increase the diameter of the forcing cone to compensate for other issues. Roughness of forcing cones and some forcing cones not being concentric to the bore. So an interesting journey for a long rife bolt action guy.

https://singleactions.proboards.com/thread/13944/degrees-another-angle-forcing-cone

 

[film495]

it can easily be in time, and not have the cylinder alignment spot on. both are easy checks, the timing needs no tools, the cylinder alignmnet easy to check with a range rod.

 

[murf]

Sounds like a Lewis lead remover would be useful here. Lead and high pressure are a lethal combination for a forcing cone.

luck,

murf

 

[Palladan44]

Thoroughly clean and have it inspected by a competent gunsmith.... Or skip that step and just send it back to S&W for an adjustment (or whatever it needs, IF anything) No big deal.
A 28-2 with 50 years under its belt deserves a go through.

 

[243winxb]

Check cylinder, barrel with a Range Rod, as all ready said.
A .357" diameter bullet is UNDERSIZE for my M28-2. .358" works. I load same cast #382. Weight is 163 grs as cast.

Alloy can not be to hard, in my testing. (Linotype)

For spittimg, check the gap between barrel and cylinder. .004" to .010" is ok.

The spitting has been seen with some 357 mag factory ammo. Mostly from the wrong powder being used. The blast from the cylinder gap can be felt on shooters face at times. This is with a cylinder gap of .010"

If gun passes the range rod test, fire a box of factory 357 mag jacketed bullet ammo. See what happens.

My Dad's mixture would come out at 147gr. (7% lighter)

Alloy may contain something other then lead, tin, & antimomy, to be that light? My as cast diameter is large @ .360" Some Bismuth may be in your Dads alloy? Its softer, lighter & melts at a lower temperature. No Bismuth wanted.

 

[243winxb]

forcing cones

"When cutting a chamfer, you normally do not want to have the internal di-
ameter of the rear-most portion of the chamfered area to be over .020" larger
than the diameter of the bullet of the cartridge that is being used. In other
words, in a .38 Special revolver, which utilizes a bullet that is normally .356"
to .358" in diameter, the maximum diameter of the chamfer should be
.376" to .378". A very simple and easy way to check this, and to ensure you
do not cut more than you should, is to utilize the Brownells Chamfer Plug."

Google- "throat chamfer kit brownells instructions pdf" to learn more. (Factory ok for me)

 

[Pat Riot]

You have had some very good suggestions but I would like to add that in your testing and experimentation if you try “plated” bullets versus jacketed or full metal jacketed bullets plating can start coming apart after 1200-1250 FPS OR if you put a heavy crimp on the cartridge at lower velocities.
I bring this up because I had a problem with “spitting” from the left side off S&W model 19. I checked and confirmed timing, barrel to chamber alignment, chamber throat sizing and barrel to cylinder gaps. All was well until one day a tiny piece of copper plating stuck in my cheek.

I said all that to say, perhaps your father’s round were just brittle and the force of firing caused the spitting. A brittle lead bullet with a heavy crimp might cause this.

I hope you figure it out.

 

[halfmoonclip]

When you have it, first see if it carries up; the locking bolt should latch before the hammer is fully cocked.
If it passes that test, check the forcing cone for cleanliness, and then shoot some jacketed bullets. If it's really out of time, jacketed bullets will show it....a 66 I've got had that problem; it blessed me with a piece of jacket in my hand.
Unhappily, it took a trip to Springfield to fix it (IIRC, the barrel was replaced, and there may have been an issue with a couple chambers) to make it right...and now it is. But that may be challenge from South Africa.
Keep us posted.
Moon

 

[Bazoo]

My condolences for the loss of your father.

It's hard to tell what the cause could be without seeing pictures or inspecting the gun. If the gunsmith thinks the barrel and cylinder are not aligned, it's possible to have that corrected. If the forcing cone is non-existant or very minimal it can cause spitting, cutting it somewhat deeper would be the fix. It's possible the barrel or cylinder needs to be replaced.

I would get a second opinion if there is any doubt as to whether the gunsmith is knowledgeable about revolvers.

 

[Andrew Leigh]

Unfortunately, the licensing process takes rather long here. I expect to get the license in about three months after application, I will be applying this week hopefully. There will much time I can spend researching all matters wheel gun but will only have the firearm in my grubby mitts in around 3 months.

You boys are blessed. It is very difficult to own a firearm here and even more difficult to own a couple.

To bore you, first one must do a competency course which consists of a theroretical examination and then a practical exam through a registered agency. This has four modules, handgun, rifle, semi-auto rifle and shotgun. One can do any combination or do them all.

Then one applies to the police to verify your competency program and you are screened and background checks are conducted, even my wife and employer was interviewed. This competency once issued, takes about three months, and is valid for 10 years after which one needs to apply for renewal. Any gun license you may have will expire with the competency so one needs to stay awake. So a 4 month period elapses before you can even think of shopping for a firearm.

We can then own 4 firearms as a standard. If one is for self-defense then this is registered under Section 13. Self Defense and you are left with 3 long guns. If you want a further handgun you would have to license this under a different Section 15 for Occasional Sport shooter / Hunter.

Assuming one has on SD pistol, two hunting rifles and a shotgun then any additional firearm has to be justified. I am registered under Section 16 - Dedicated Hunter which allows me to have multiple hunting rifles / hunting handguns. The same would be true for a Sports Shooter. One needs to run another course and belong to various bodies and undertake various tasks to maintain this status which expires annually. Every license application is accompanied by long motivations as to why you require said firearm.

So this .375 will be licensed as a hunting handgun as it is extremely difficult to have two SD weapons licensed to one person.

Your SD license needs renewing every 5 years and other licenses every 10 years. When you apply for a license the firearm stays with the dealer until you can produce your license. I suppose like with you guys, there is a difference in legal status between the owner if the firearm and the licencee.

A right PITA but is seems to keep crazies off the streets for the most part. The annual cost of ownership is also a PITA.

The overwhelming majority of crime here is conducted with unlicensed, stolen firearms.

 

[Y-T71]

Unfortunately, the licensing process takes rather long here. I expect to get the license in about three months after application, I will be applying this week hopefully. There will much time I can spend researching all matters wheel gun but will only have the firearm in my grubby mitts in around 3 months.

You boys are blessed. It is very difficult to own a firearm here and even more difficult to own a couple.

To bore you, first one must do a competency course which consists of a theroretical examination and then a practical exam through a registered agency. This has four modules, handgun, rifle, semi-auto rifle and shotgun. One can do any combination or do them all.

Then one applies to the police to verify your competency program and you are screened and background checks are conducted, even my wife and employer was interviewed. This competency once issued, takes about three months, and is valid for 10 years after which one needs to apply for renewal. Any gun license you may have will expire with the competency so one needs to stay awake. So a 4 month period elapses before you can even think of shopping for a firearm.

We can then own 4 firearms as a standard. If one is for self-defense then this is registered under Section 13. Self Defense and you are left with 3 long guns. If you want a further handgun you would have to license this under a different Section 15 for Occasional Sport shooter / Hunter.

Assuming one has on SD pistol, two hunting rifles and a shotgun then any additional firearm has to be justified. I am registered under Section 16 - Dedicated Hunter which allows me to have multiple hunting rifles / hunting handguns. The same would be true for a Sports Shooter. One needs to run another course and belong to various bodies and undertake various tasks to maintain this status which expires annually. Every license application is accompanied by long motivations as to why you require said firearm.

So this .375 will be licensed as a hunting handgun as it is extremely difficult to have two SD weapons licensed to one person.

Your SD license needs renewing every 5 years and other licenses every 10 years. When you apply for a license the firearm stays with the dealer until you can produce your license. I suppose like with you guys, there is a difference in legal status between the owner if the firearm and the licencee.

A right PITA but is seems to keep crazies off the streets for the most part. The annual cost of ownership is also a PITA.

The overwhelming majority of crime here is conducted with unlicensed, stolen firearms.

Thanks for that information!

Definitely sounds like a PITA but at least you're not completely banned from ownership.

BTW, your last sentence speaks volumes about the futility of oppressive gun laws.

Good luck with your quest to solve your lead spitting problem.

Many helpful and knowledgeable people here!

 

[Onty]

To bore you, first one must do a competency course which consists of a theroretical examination and then a practical exam through a registered agency. This has four modules, handgun, rifle, semi-auto rifle and shotgun. One can do any combination or do them all.

Same thing in Canada, for long guns and handguns, at least earlier, when handguns could be purchased. On top of that, if you want to join any club, they had their own safety courses, that includes theoretical part and practical, shooting on the range. Don't get me wrong, those courses are not bad thing. I would suggest that any new shooter should have one. I had seen some folks they never had firearm in their hands until they came to that course. The most important thing is to train shooter basic safety rules, like keeping firearm in safe direction all the time. Or keeping the finger from trigger until ready to fire. Another important one is what to do in case of malfunction, especially squib load. The last thing we want is not to recognize that bullet gut stuck in the barrel and than fire another round. At the best, barrel will be ringed, at the worst, firearm will explode. Or what to do in case of a hangfire. Here is the dangerous way https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Za2ezCNvBeU . Make a note that at 0:22, shotgun failed to fire, but fella, instead of stopping immediately, and talking all precautions, cycled shotgun, and pulled the trigger again. Notice what happened next. Talk about luck!

Talking about stuck bullets and ringed barrel:

This one has 35 bullets stuck, two pictures were needed in order to show all of them https://www.guns.com/news/2019/03/0...-finds-carbine-barrel-stuffed-with-35-bullets :

P.S. My apology for "hijacking" the thread, but I believe this is very important information, especially for those new to this forum and shooting in general.

 

[doubleh]

Since it is very accurate the simple solution would be to have all bystanders be on your left. Sorry. I couldn't help myself.

If I were in your shoes I would give the gun a very good cleaning after you have it in hand. Then try differently shaped bullets with a piece of white poster board held close to the right side to see what happens. That should catch any lead shavings to know for what is happening with each type.

 

[Andrew Leigh]

Many thanks for all the input.

 

[Onty]

I have inherited this firearm from my Dad. Due to the laws of the land this side of the pond, it has had to stay in dealer stock until licensed into my name. My brother who knows the revolver well warned me that she "spits lead" and that I need to warn shooters to my right.

Since it is very accurate the simple solution would be to have all bystanders be on your left. Sorry. I couldn't help myself.

Taking about revolver spitting, I was on the range, watching a member of my club shooting S&W 44 Magnum. He was shooting lead bullets, not even full power loads. I was standing at about 4-5 meters behind, at aprox. 45 degrees, when I was hit in the chin with tiny piece of lead. No blood, just bit of reddish skin. Can you imagine getting that in the eye!?

Of course, I had safety glasses (and ear muffs). In all those clubs I had been, if anyone shows on firing line without any of those two, her/she is kicked out from the range immediately, some time for good.

Last but not the least, KEEP FINGERS FROM BARREL-CYLINDER GAP. Otherwise, this WILL happen, especially with high pressure loads:



More here https://youtu.be/t6vMkk8VYzc .

And if revolver is also spitting the lead, things will get worse!

 

[halfmoonclip]

Same thing in Canada, for long guns and handguns, at least earlier, when handguns could be purchased. On top of that, if you want to join any club, they had their own safety courses, that includes theoretical part and practical, shooting on the range. Don't get me wrong, those courses are not bad thing. I would suggest that any new shooter should have one. I had seen some folks they never had firearm in their hands until they came to that course. The most important thing is to train shooter basic safety rules, like keeping firearm in safe direction all the time. Or keeping the finger from trigger until ready to fire. Another important one is what to do in case of malfunction, especially squib load. The last thing we want is not to recognize that bullet gut stuck in the barrel and than fire another round. At the best, barrel will be ringed, at the worst, firearm will explode. Or what to do in case of a hangfire. Here is the dangerous way https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Za2ezCNvBeU . Make a note that at 0:22, shotgun failed to fire, but fella, instead of stopping immediately, and talking all precautions, cycled shotgun, and pulled the trigger again. Notice what happened next. Talk about luck!

Talking about stuck bullets and ringed barrel:

This one has 35 bullets stuck, two pictures were needed in order to show all of them https://www.guns.com/news/2019/03/0...-finds-carbine-barrel-stuffed-with-35-bullets :

P.S. My apology for "hijacking" the thread, but I believe this is very important information, especially for those new to this forum and shooting in general.

Onty, a buddy used a .32 S&W as his bullseye gun; on rapid fire, he had a sqib, and four more rounds piled up behind it. It was impossible to remove them, and he was never able to find another barrel.
Like how you split the barrel with a bandsaw.
Moon

 

[tactikel]

I had to have my 28-2 s forcing cone recut at about 12000 rounds, it shaved lead too. Runs perfectly now.

 

[Onty]

Onty, a buddy used a .32 S&W as his bullseye gun; on rapid fire, he had a sqib, and four more rounds piled up behind it. It was impossible to remove them, and he was never able to find another barrel.
Like how you split the barrel with a bandsaw.
Moon

Not mine picture, I found it on internet. But both barrels were nicely machined, showing clearly what happened.