S&W Triple Lock, 44 S&W, target, plated; what would you do

O

Onty

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Stumbled upon picture of Smit & Wesson, Triple Lock, 44 S&W, target, nickel and gold plated:

9751769_1.jpg
BTW, revolver was sold for $950, 2010, https://www.icollector.com/Scarce-E...del-Triple-Lock-Double-Action-Target_i9751769 .

If you manage to get something like this, what would you do with it?

If I get it, since revolver is not original any more, I will promptly send it to a reputable smith to strip down all plating, rechamber to 44 Special, go over mechanism and reblue whole revolver the way it was originally done. If barrel is bad, I will ask smith if revolver could be rebored into 45 S&W Schofield.

New grips, of course. Hopefully, it will look better than this:

8A7beE3.jpg
 
Since it’s already been refinished, refinishing again won’t really matter.

You state you will rechamber to .44 Special. It’s likely already in that caliber. The vast majority of Triple Lock revolvers for the domestic market were chambered in .44,S & W Special.
 
Well, they said; "Gauge: 44 S&W" , see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.44_S&W_American .

Assuming the above is correct, noted cartridge is similar to 41 Colt and 476 Webley, bullet dia same as case dia, with heeled bullet.

Quite different from 44 Special. However, I am bit suspicious about 44 S&W. You might be right that it's already chambered in 44 Special. However, in those days lot of things were possible.
 
amd6547 said:
It needs a letter from S&W giving its history. You never know who one of those may have been shipped to.
Click to expand...
If a letter shows it was made up as a gift to a famous Hollywood celebrity, military hero, etc.. it would be worth more as-is with such provenance. I would sell it as is and put the money elsewhere. :)

If it was done by some South-side schmoe to play “Pimpercrombie & Fitch” to impress his hoes on the weekends, then I would refinish it for my own use to restore some semblance of dignity for the piece.

(Not a fan of overly plated/embellished guns at all. :barf:)

Stay safe.
 
I believe the .44 Special was the only .44 caliber that the triple lock came in, as the Special was introduced along with the triple lock. (Edit: 44WCF/44-40 was also offered later.)

Since American gun companies aren’t good at easily distinguishing different cartridges by name, and gun owners are often not very good at matching ammo to chambers, it may be the Special was added by S&W to the barrel avoid confusion.

Since I wasn’t there when the changes were made, that is merely a guess.

Stay safe.
 
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When the Triple Lock came out in ".44 S&W" they were making revolvers in .32 S&W and .38 S&W, so they just continued the policy.
They had not made a gun in .44 S&W American in years, although they were still selling .44 S&W Russian New Model No 3s built on leftover parts.

The Triple Lock is a .44 Hand Ejector First Model, the post #10 gun is a .44 Hand Ejector Third Model.
Companies change stuff.

They made Triple Locks in .455 for the British, some converted from .44s in inventory, then deleted the third lock and ejector rod shroud for the Second Model. The story goes that the Brits found that the shroud and lock recess accumulated trench mud. Smith returned the shroud but not the lock upon request by a big distributor to produce the Third Model.

There are a few Triple Locks in other calibers, but not many.
 
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Buying a customized Harley and then restoring it to stock is nuts, and a waste of money. I will say this situation is the same with this nickle and gold pistol. Attempting to restore it to factory new will be expensive, and no matter how good the restorer, it will never be new again.

Obviously someone wanted a showy pistol, and their taste tended to the extravagant and glam.

As for shooting, all depends on the mechanical condition of the piece. You will find that blued pistols, later nickled or chromed, have issues. Factory pistols that were nickled started out with slightly larger cylinder slots, etc, because nickle plating fills in the holes. Might have cylinder over rides, timing issues. These things have to be examined in person. But, if it checked out, shooting it means light loads. These WW1 era S&W's were made out of plain carbon steels and they were not heat treated. The steels of the day had lots of random amounts of residual elements which unpredictably weakened the steel. These residual elements were all non oxidizable elements such as copper, nickle, vanadium, tungsten, etc, elements that would not burn out during smelting. Due to the inconsistency of period metallurgy, these things sometime just fail.

Found some neat pictures of a 1935 FN Belgium Military Mauser kaboom on this french gunforum page. Mauser belge Kaboom

The translation of the OP's post is:

His Belgian mauser of 1935 exploded at the level of the affraid chamber it was not a bullet stuck in the barrel, not a cartridge reloaded too hard, no, just a weapon whose steel had decided that it was the blow too much Evil or Very Mad My friend escapes unscathed left for a good fright.

a follow on poster correctly identified the most likely cause of the chamber failure (again google translate )

It's called metal fatigue, it's best known in aviation. It should also be noted that the steels of those years are less elaborate and refined than those of today, there are a lot of impurities, especially residues of other soft metals. From the danger of old weapons: always be wary of them, observe if nothing moves after each shooting session, a digital caliper, a notebook and take notes on the most sensitive points, as here the Ø outside the room.

Now yes, Elmer Keith was shooting hot loads in these things when they were "new". Elmer was experimenting well before Mr Casull or Freedom Arms began making tool steel models of Colt SAA's. Elmer also had a number of blown top strap stories, and if he shot the timing out of a S&W or Colt the cost of a replacement was a lot less than today.

Understand the limitations of relics, especially those that have been through a lot of hands.
 
Years ago, I saw a couple of beautiful .44 HE 2nd models.
Salvaged after a house fire, they had been sent back to S&W to be refurbished.
There were originally three, one was rejected by Smith as unsalvageable.
The other two were in bright Smith nickel, no flaws visible, new Magna grips.
But the bores were rough. I guess Smith was already out of barrels.

There was a shop in my home town that specialized in fancy finishes. They did polished blue, nickel, and gold; and combinations thereof. I did not see a three-tone gun but they had a method of different finishes on the same part, usually a blue cylinder with nickel or gold flutes.

There was a shop here that prominently displayed semiautomatic MACs in dazzling plating. I heard they got in bad with BATF for letting customers think they were SMGs.
 
Jim Watson said:
There was a shop in my home town that specialized in fancy finishes. They did polished blue, nickel, and gold; and combinations thereof. I did not see a three-tone gun but they had a method of different finishes on the same part, usually a blue cylinder with nickel or gold flutes.
Click to expand...

I guess the story is "was a shop". I had a sword hilt chrome plated in the 1970's. The chrome shop was in a residential district. Those are all gone, cities will no longer let chrome shops dump their chemicals in the city sewers.
 
I have a few Colt New Service Revolvers. 44 Special is not an unknown caliber but it is far from common. 45 Colt is the most common caliber, followed by 44 WCF. There are even some in 38 Special. Here's mine:

RARE-FLAT-TOP-TARGET-NEW-SERVICE-REVOLVER-45-COLT-7-1-2inch bbl a.jpg

Finding a Target version of the S&W triple lock is a lot more expensive IMHO.
 
That thing is amazing! Celebrate its weirdness. Shoot the snot out of it. OC it for fun if you're hunting or hiking. :)
 
I can tell you exactly what I would do and wouldn't give a damn what it was worth in the end. I'd have it stripped, refinished and stocked by Rob Rowen. Probably do Turnbull's carbona blue. Might even have it engraved. It'd be finer than frog hair. Nobody does anything like this to make money.

That said, if the barrel had to be rebored or replaced, that is highly problematic. After a 30min discussion with Hamilton Bowen, I passed on a very affordable Triple Lock Target that had had the barrel shortened and needed only the front sight rectified.
 
A cautionary note. If you have or acquire a Triple-lock do not shoot 'Skeeter Skelton' 44 Special loads in it. Those early Smiths were not heat treated for the pressure of those or similar hand loads.

The original 44 Special, as developed by S&W, was a 246g RN lead bullet at ~770 fps (depending on barrel length). Shoot an equivalent of that through that old of a gun. I have an early 1920s 2nd Model 44 Special and I don't exceed the original specs for that one either.

Dave
 
Jim Watson said:
…The story goes that the Brits found that the shroud and lock recess accumulated trench mud ...
Click to expand...

The change order was submitted, by the British Army, prior to the New Century Models even being shipped. They were never even near the trenches when the decision was made to remove the shroud and lock. But, the removal of those items created a reduction in cost, likely the real reason for the request.

Jim Watson said:
…Smith returned the shroud but not the lock upon request by a big distributor to produce the Third Model...
Click to expand...

That may have been Wolf and Klar in Texas who supplied many of them to Texas law enforcement.

Jim Watson said:
…There are a few Triple Locks in other calibers, but not many...
Click to expand...

The very first New Century Model revolvers went to the Army Trials of 1907 and were chambered in the new 45 S&W Special cartridge. Not many were submitted and the whereabouts of two are known.


Kevin
 
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