I just picked up this 1913 today. Pretty cool little gun that never took off and is rarely seen (or known about) these days. S&W tried going against the grain and made this gun in 35 caliber to compete with the .32. One cool feature is a mainspring disconnect that makes it a breeze to rack. Ian does a good video on FW.
S&W's first auto loader. M1913
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halfmoonclip
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Do I recall the recoil spring being above the barrel, an idea Smith kept trying to incorporate in its .22 autos?
Neat gun; is any ammo available?
Moon
Neat gun; is any ammo available?
Moon
243winxb
Member
Had an S&W .32 automatic (Number. 50) back in the late 70s. Not many made. JAM-A-MATIC.
NIGHTLORD40K
Member
Passed on a decent one recently for a reasonable price. Although they will fire .32ACP, its generally loaded a bit hotter than .35S&W and I woulda felt bad about beating the gun to death.
Besides, its not like .32 is actually obtainable these days......
Still, these are cool guns and a neat historical oddity. Nice pickup, OP!
Besides, its not like .32 is actually obtainable these days......
Still, these are cool guns and a neat historical oddity. Nice pickup, OP!
Speedo66
Member
I had a S&W Escort Model 61, .22 semi auto, only made for three or four years.
I seem to remember it also had the spring above the barrel.
I woulda felt bad about beating the gun to death.
Besides, its not like .32 is actually obtainable these days......
You might have passed on one from the same collection.
Being a PPK lover I didn't get caught short on .32 so one of these days I'll give it a go.
NIGHTLORD40K
Member
Could be the same gun, lol!
My buddy Joel in Bradenton DID take in a bunch of old pocket pistols from a single source, and among them was the .35 S&W. There were a couple of PPs, Colt Vest Pockets, Savage Autos, and a mint Le Francais .25 Police Model amongst others there. He sold the S&W about 6 weeka ago.......
Now that I think about it, my Radom may have originated in that lot too. Ill have to ask him.
Monac
Member
These are very interesting guns. S&W based them on the patents of a Belgian designer named Charles Clement, mainly because they couldn't come up with any else useful that didn't violate John Browning's patents. That was a universal problem in the manufacture of early automatic pistols.
The basic Clement design worked fine for 25 ACP and for 5mm Clement (aka "5mm Charola-Anitua"), but it was inadequate for anything like 32 ACP, which includes 35 S&W. Clement made only a very small number of 32's himself.
An excellent gun writer named Donald Simmons did a very thorough article about the S&W 35 in the 1976 Gun Digest Annual. If you want to know every variation your gun might possess, I recommend it highly. Copies of that book are available on Ebay for around $10. I assume it is also in the Gun Digest CD collection, but that's about $70. There may have been some new things learned about the 35's since 1976, but Simmon's article should still be a very good start, and is very clear and well organized.
Ed Buffaloe has a very long, thorough, and well illustrated article about Clement pistols on his Unblinking Eye website; he had help from a very knowledgable collector named Bill Chase. There is a paragraph or so at the very end about the S&W 35. It's here: https://unblinkingeye.com/Guns/Clement/clement.html
The basic Clement design worked fine for 25 ACP and for 5mm Clement (aka "5mm Charola-Anitua"), but it was inadequate for anything like 32 ACP, which includes 35 S&W. Clement made only a very small number of 32's himself.
An excellent gun writer named Donald Simmons did a very thorough article about the S&W 35 in the 1976 Gun Digest Annual. If you want to know every variation your gun might possess, I recommend it highly. Copies of that book are available on Ebay for around $10. I assume it is also in the Gun Digest CD collection, but that's about $70. There may have been some new things learned about the 35's since 1976, but Simmon's article should still be a very good start, and is very clear and well organized.
Ed Buffaloe has a very long, thorough, and well illustrated article about Clement pistols on his Unblinking Eye website; he had help from a very knowledgable collector named Bill Chase. There is a paragraph or so at the very end about the S&W 35. It's here: https://unblinkingeye.com/Guns/Clement/clement.html
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NIGHTLORD40K
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Wow, a great read! Clement was a prolific designer and some of his works are remarkably modern-looking, while others are hideously clumsy and awkward.
knot4reel
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Well now, isn't this a cutie. Any problems finding ammo?
Monac
Member
Plenty. I don't think 35 S&W has been commercially manufactured since 1940. Handloaders can probably make it (handloaders can make just about anything, I guess) but with less than 8,500 guns ever made for it, and those all fixed-sight pocket pistols, they don't bother much, as far as I can tell. I've had a 35 for about 30+ years, and a handful of loose rounds for it, but I've never fired it.
It differs from 32 ACP in being rimless and lower powered. I think bullet diameter is a true .320, but I could be wrong about that. Bullet weight is given as 76 grains on Wikipedia.
S&W came up with a fancy "half mantled" design for the bullet, which was the opposite of a soft-nosed design; it had a round, jacketed nose, but the lower part of the projectile was unjacketed plain lead. This was done because S&W felt that full metal jacket bullets wore out the rifling in pistol barrels too fast. Remember, this was in 1913, before the mass use of full jacketed 45 ACP in S&W revolvers in World War 1. I don't think anyone else has gone done that particular road again, at least not for pocket pistol ammo.
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If I do go ahead and shoot it with the .32 ammo it won't be very much. This is one of those interesting pistols that's fun just to own. The shop where I found it had 2. Mine and a "newer" version with an old re-blue. I'm hoping the other one doesn't sell because it's missing grip screws. If not I'll pick it up on the cheap for a parts gun.
Here's a pic of the odd grip safety.
Here's a pic of the odd grip safety.
Monac
Member
Oh, the finger safety. That was another bright idea. Originally, you not only had to squeeze it back, but also slightly to the left to make it function. This was considered to be a natural consequence of holding the gun properly (assuming you held it right-handed). The idea was to keep it from simply getting pushed straight back while in a pocket or holster; it had to be gripped in the hand to be released.
Unfortunately, it made it nearly impossible to fire the pistol left-handed, and a surprising number of right-handers apparently had problems too. S&W got enough complaints about this that they deleted the left-movement feature, creating another variation for collectors.
I should not be so hard on S&W. Automatic pistol design was still less than 20 years old in 1913, and Colt had scooped up John Browning and consequently most of the best ways of making automatic pistols at that time. Still, S&W might have done better to buy Webley designs like H&R did. The H&R 32 "Self Loader" was an actual functional weapon, and is an underrated vintage pocket pistol, IMO.
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Gordon
Member
It seems to me if the .32 acp is loaded hotter than the .35S&W was then the larger .320 bore would allow the gas to flow around the bullet thus reducing the internal pressures and the velocity quite a lot ! If so them the .32acpseem like it would be ok for limited testing.
Monac
Member
Yes, very true. If that practice caused any significant problems, we would have heard about them in the past 100+ years. I think I have read that the gun is more likely to jam with 32 ACP, though. Maybe that is just guessing, or maybe the semi-rim on 32 has an effect there.
Using 32 ACP regularly is not a good idea, and I realize no one is suggesting that. It's just that the fundamental problem with the Clement design when scaled up to 35 or 32 is that the blowback breechblock is significantly underweight, even for the lower powered 35 S&W round.
This causes it to open too quickly and increases the chances of cartridge case rupture. Modern vest-pocket sized 32 automatic with light slides, like the Kel-Tec 32, get around that by being locked-breech guns instead of blowbacks.
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