Sorry for resurrecting an old thread. I've been a reader of this excellent forum for a little while, and have learned a lot, but when doing a google search on s30v, this thread pops up, after I read it I had to register and add my $.02 because I was a little frustrated by some of the comments, seems as if personal bias has trumped science and physics in some cases. Also, I'm sure you guys who have kept up with it have changed some of your opinions, but since I haven't seen any thread like that, I'll pick on a few posts here, but
nothing personal 
. Sorry in advance, this post is going to be wicked long.
I personally do not like it.
Then again I admit being biased against stainless steels period and biased toward proven tool steels, carbon steels and Chrome Vanadium.
S30V has one of the highest carbon
and vanadium contents of all knife steels @ 1.45% and 4% respectively. Any steel with > 0.5% carbon is classified as high carbon. What makes it typically classified "stainless" is 13% or more chromium--chromium is also added to steel for wear resistance and hardenabilty. S30V has 14% chromium. Needless to say; corrosion and micro-oxidation at the edge causes pitting and rapid loss of sharpness. I prefer not to have to worry about it all the time, I quite enjoy stainless properties. Btw, D2 has 12% chromium.
Heat treat is critical it seems and the window for error is really small, and the characteristics of the S30V , well... a whole bunch of folks share the same problems with the edge being brittle.
"a whole bunch of folks"...
... Anyways...any knife/any steel not properly heat treated will be brittle. A cheap company may mass produce some s30v blanks in order to capitalize on the name, but then send some guy out with a blow torch and bucket of water to do the HT. Some of the first blades in s30v may have had issues before a proper HT method was found, but s30v is among the least brittle. It has the same or slightly higher longitudinal toughness than D2, 440c and 154 cm, but it has roughly 4 times the transverse toughness of 440c or 154cm (not sure about d2), making it far less likely to chip or break when side loaded.
Custom, and someone that really knows heat treat, probably okay.
Does Phil Wilson do S30V?
better than OK, it is superior as measured by objective standards, and is in production runs--like the Alaskan guides at Cabellas which are all HT'ed by BOS.
Phil Wilson does use s30v, I've read about him that he's one of the few who has the experience and the will to work with exotic steels. On his website he says that he has discontinued working with some of his old favorites (ATS 34, 154CM, 420HC) and his current production is made up of six cold work tool steel grades: CPM 154,CPM S90V,CPM S30V,CPM 10V, CPM S125V and AEB-L. He says: "I use more CPM 154 for fillet knives than any other steel. It is very stain resistant, has very good edge holding, and very good ductility. The majority of my hunting knives the last couple of years have been made with CPM S-90V, CPM S-30V or CPM 10V. I use CPM 154, AEB-L and CPM S-30V for kitchen knives."
I think it speaks highly that s30v is the only steel he uses for both hunting and the kitchen. s90v, btw, is way more hard to work with, the only non-custom I know of is a Spyderco military for around $200. Spyderco also uses s60v and reduced hardness to 55-56 hrc in order to keep toughness acceptable, thereby trading off in strength, but these have
supreme wear resistance.
Just me, I think folks would really do well to stick to carbon steel or CV, as these are proven,
Not really sure what you mean by carbon steel or CV. All steels have carbon in them. Are you looking for the steel with the highest carbon content? I have some solid carbide drill bits, they range from 77 to 81 HRC, making them quite brittle. VG-10 (probably Japan's current best knife steel) has 1% carbon, 440c has 1%, s30v has 1.45%, D2 has 1.55%. The only CV I know is Carbon V ...don't want to drag you guys through that again...whatever steel Carbon V used(uses), it's a good chrome-vanadium steel, rusts easily, nothing extra special.
edit: I do know what you mean by carbon steel, I guess I was just being stubborn there to make the point that even though it's classified as stainless rather than falling under the generic carbon steel classification, it still has as much carbon as many of the carbon steels.
and most folks for what they do with a knife, do not need these new steels,
Most people didn't need to upgrade from their Mossberg 500 either
. As some other people have said, it depends what you want to use your knife for. Some people don't notice, don't care, just like some people don't focus much on the gun they're shooting, as long as it kills the deer they're pointing at. Different steels have different characteristics, choose the one that works best for you. My planes are A2 tool steel, drill bits solid carbide, cobalt, or a basic HSS depending on application, table saw blades are tungsten carbide tipped, and my hunting knife is s30v (because I like the steel, the features, ergonomics and Buck is 20 minutes away and right next to Cabellas, so their lifetime warranty/ resharpening service is a win for me). But offer me a prettier, more functional hunting knife in D2 and I'll take it too. But, being a knife lover, I enjoy knowing my knife and what it's capabilities are, and that the steel is technologically advanced.
Most of my knives are made from VG-10 which I like. I have 2 knives made from S30V- a Spyderco Yojimbo and a Gerber Freeman Skinning knife, both hold an edge better than anything I've ever used.
Vg-10 is a superlative Japanese steel, that has surpassed a previous Japanese kingpin (ats-34). Your cost will include Japanese import restrictions. All things being equal (quality HT, blade geometry); s30v holds an edge a little better, and is a little tougher, harder to sharpen and has 1% less chromium giving the vg-10 less stainability.
However, insofar as these two knives are concerned, the 440-C is the better blade. Other knives may vary, who knows what occurred in the heat treat of these two blades.
I will say this, while I prefer the 440-C, the S30V is no slouch. Still a good knife. Just not as good as the 440-C. YMMV!
exactly true, mileage varies depending on Heat treatment quality. And the s30v is harder to sharpen, but given proper HT, will also retain its edge better and be tougher.
http://www.dougritter.com/pop_up_cpms30v.htm
As most of you guys know, heat treatment is way more complex than the Japanese dude, dunking the samurai sword in a water trough. I think Paul Bos' formula for s30v is: 1975F hardening, cold nitrogen into an evacuated retort for quenching to below 1000F, cool to room temp, snap temper (donno temp), cryofreeze over night (donno temp), followed by two 600F tempers for two hours each bringing the steel to HRC59/60. There are even more steps for ats-34.
I have repeatedly heard the adage 'S30V is for folks who don't know how to sharpen their regular blades!'. Great indictment of it's ability, with proper HT, I suppose... but true!!
Sounds like you've been reading some cooking forums. When I hear someone make a put down on something new for something old (when it's baseless), its usually because they are biased. Guys who work in a kitchen all day will have an easier and quicker time re-honing softer metals, more forgiving metals (although they have to do it way more often). Although Phil Wilson does include it in his kitchen steel.
Like any of the new wonder steels, it's fashionable, but after using a knife made from it last year, I don't see any advantage over D2. Year after year we get wonder steels. The first big ones were 154CM and ATS34.
Those are all great steels. And you're right, unless you're doing objective tests, its hard to notice any difference, and if you end up with one that hasn't been properly HT'd you'll think it sucks. D2 has excellent wear resistance (I think around CATRA 110%)and due to it's coarse carbide structures (up to 50 microns) has a very toothy edge, which will cut through hides and meat very nicely, but not as good for push cutting through harder materials. (this is why supposedly some knifemaker has been re-quoted 1000 times as saying d2 takes a lousy edge and holds it forever), but it's only lousy if you are looking for a mirror polished edge, as D2's polished edge has an orange peel characteristic.
The CATRA (Cutlery & Allied Trades Research Association) test machine does a standard cutting operation and measures the number of silica impregnated cards which are cut (TCC = total cards cut). It is considered a measure of relative wear resistance. In this test s30v rated 145%, 440c is the standard at 100%, 154cm rated 120%. But if you're cutting through a couple elk hides, when are you going to notice the knife start to lose it's edge? Really hard to quantify right? But...it is what it is.
As others have noted, it's really hard to beat a good carbon steel knife. They are much harder to mess up during heat treat and you can do things like differential hardening.
Any steel can be differentially hardened. Are we talking about customs? Because it's just not practical for commercial knives. With a super high quality steel I don't know why you'd want it differentially hardened. Definitely on my samurai sword where breakage is a real issue
, but who cares on my knife. And, if you're really concerned about breakage....I hear s30v is a really tough, really good steel that resists breakage
