SAA - how to grip for accuracy

[Quoheleth]

A couple weeks ago, I got my Uberti Hombre in .45 Colt. My first range trip was a smashing success. Accuracy was outstanding, but the gun shot low - about 3" at 10 yards. With a high 12:00 hold, I was more-or-less hitting the center of my bullseye. I was shooting with a modified Weaver grip, two hands, slightly altered from how I would shoot a DA revolver.

This afternoon I was shooting the same gun, same bullet, same load (8gr Unique, 250gr LRN MBC, mixed brass, WLP), same grip & stance. Still shooting low. On a whim and a whirl, I tried the old US Army stance - one handed, body about 45 degrees canted from the target instead of facing it square on. Low and behold, holding dead center, I was hitting doggone near dead center - or, at least, I was hitting where my shot was breaking instead of 3" low. I would let the gun roll up in my hand. My pinkey was under the grip, two fingers under the trigger guard, and a firm grip, but not so much as to make muscles wobbly. My friend, shooting with me, said it was looking like the gun was kicking the everlivin' hound out of me, but it wasn't - just a nice rolling push upward on the forearm.

That got me thinking - are SAA/clones meant to be fired with a looser stance so recoil drives the muzzle upward, lifting POI? I was always taught to have a walnut-crushing grip on a gun with arms almost locked so to drive the recoil rearward but keep the gun from rising too high in recoil. Do SAA/clones have a bit different style needed to shoot them well?

For all intents and purposes, this is my first rodeo with the single-action, so it's a learning curve.

Q

 

[rcmodel]

In my experiance, SAA's require a very firm & consistent gip to get consistent accuracy or "groups".
Much more so then with a typical DA revolver that tends to stay in your hand in the same place with a slightly looser or tighter grip.

As for two-Hand Weaver vis Roll with the punch one-handed dueling position?
I never noticed that much differance in POI either way.

But all handguns begin to move before the bullet can get out of the barrel.
And big slow bullets like yours do it more then light fast ones.
So I can see where it would if you are strong enough in the Weaver to keep movement at a minimum.

rc

 

[W.E.G.]

I think John Taffin would tell you to hold it tight enough that the hammer doesn't dig into the back of your hand on recoil.

Everything else is personal and subjective.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

In my experiance, SAA's require a very firm & consistent gip to get consistent accuracy or "groups".

+1!

 

[Red Cent]

I am not bring different on purpose. I agree with RC that you should take a tight grip.

When shooting for accuracy, bench or offhand, I use a hold just tight enough to maintain the revolver. I guess it would be described as let 'er roll. I want that trigger to surprise me. Yes, I can get a surprise release witout jerking the trigger. Many years shooting the 44 Mag.

But. All my single actions have tuned triggers with light # pulls. Under 2#s. My Ruger Super Blackhawk is factory but, I suppose, since it was manufactured in the 50s, the single action pull is superb for accuracy shooting.

 

[BRE346]

My revolver shoots dead-center with a firm two-handed grip in either SA or DA. I haven't tried a one-handed grip at the range.

 

[SAA]

Loose, firm, tight, don't amount to a hill of beans. What matters is consistency. I found that for myself I am more consistent with a medium-loose grip, and that means more consistent shot-to-shot, group-to-group, session-to-session, and day-to-day. Everyone is different, but the SA, like all firearms though maybe more so, likes consistency, no matter who's at the helm.

Just today I shot my SAA two-handed off the bench, and offhand (one-hand, my usual). There was a definite two-inch difference in the point of elevational impact at 25 yards. I was shooting .45 Colt, 250 gr. bullets ahead of 35 grains FFg.

Shoot in the stance you think you'll most likely be using. Shoot enough and pay attention to what you are doing, take notes so you can go back and compare, and you'll eventually fall into your own consistency groove. Then you can think about filing that front sight to center your groups if you need to, not before.

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

I'm with Rcmodel and Vern. Firm and consistent is a very good place to start.

 

[LordDunsany]

Consistency in grip is vital. Once you are hitting the target in the same place all the time, then you can consider changes like filing the front site to raise the group, or going to a different loading.

Once you get a recipe that keeps the bullet where you want it to go, change nothing else. Just practice, practice and practice some more.

A big mistake made by new single-action shooters is fiddling with the sights before a consistent group has been achieved. Get the group first, no matter where it falls. Then adjust the sights and/or the load to bring it to the center of your target. Also decide what kind of load you want to ultimately use and practice with that. Bending or filing the front sight should be the last step in the process.

Ron in Texas

 

[whalerman]

This is a good discussion and I am learning a lot. I recently purchased a .44mag super blackhawk and I'm about to get started. There's no denying the single action grip tends to roll in your hand when firing, especially compared to a double action grip. At first I thought I had made a mistake in not purchasing a Bisley frame. But friends tell me I just have to get some experience. Keep this going, please.

 

[HDCamel]

I think a lot of people overthink it.

In my experience, SAAs are natural shooters. I just do what feels right and I get good results.

 

[eldon519]

I may be wrong here, but I think a lot of fixed-sight cowboy guns intentionally come with taller-than-needed front sights so that they can be filed down to shot hit POA with whatever load your choose.

 

[Magnumite]

I use a firm grip high on the back strap, almost "breaking" the wrist. I get consistant results like this with a single action revolver. There is less "runway" for inconsistancies to occur.

I shot my Super Blackhawk this way and way down on the grip. Still slammed my knuckle. A set of ugly Pachmyers stopped that action and I am able to use more of a DA revolver type hold with those grips.

 

[CraigC]

Most (all?) SAA's and replicas come fitted with an extra tall front sight with the intention that you file it down to zero.

While I agree that consistency is critical, particularly so with a single action, I don't grip my SA's any more or less firm than any other handgun. SA's are more sensitive to variations in your grip and thus, typically require more from the shooter to achieve proficiency. The good news is that all it takes is practice and that involves shooting them!!!

 

[snakeman]

I alway take a high grip on my single six, but for no particular reason other than its the best way for me personally to grip it.

 

[BCRider]

This is a great thread for me as I've been wrestling with SA grip methods for a while now.

I started off in CAS with a two handed hold but quickly switched to one handed duelist style since... well... that's just how John, Clint and all the rest of them shoot their six guns in the movies.... That and generally handguns were all shot one handed when in matches until some time in the 50's when two handed generally began to take over from what I've seen.

Anyway, I did find that switching to one hand caused the guns to shoot higher. Not as much hand mass and grip pressure to hold the gun in place. Sorry RC but that's what my targets told me with about a 2'ish inch shift at 12'ish yards when going back and forth from one to two handed.

Then I got into wanting to hold the grip very high, as in up at and forward of the neck bend in the grips. So high that the web of my hand crossed the back strap just behind the back of the hammer. This extreme grip pulled my shots well to the left and I found that I had to twist my hand around the grip so the first knuckle of my thumb was pretty much under the hammer to pull the shots back to center. It all felt very unnatural but it worked.... sort of. The windage was too dependent on the amount of twist around when using this sort of hold. As a result I felt something was just wrong with this. It wasn't the "natural pointing feel" that so many claim for the SAA style grips.

Recently I went out for some testing with a few of my SA guns to "get a handle" on the whole situation I felt I was missing the simple solution. After some fumbling about with different things on my Single Six I found the answer. I shifted my grip down to just lower than the neck bend and used a neutral, non twisted, hold with my pinky sitting naturally under the lower grip. The guns all shot nicely to POA without any hand twisting gymnastics needed. This new hold felt a lot more like the "natural pointer" sort of hold that so many of us claim that these guns have. Of course this is still one handed. I shoot all my SA guns one handed except the .44Mag SBH.

During all this I'm holding the gun firmly with the sort of pressure you'd use with a friendly handshake where you're not trying to bust the other guys knuckles. If I hold much tighter than this I find that my trigger finger motion affects the other muscles too much. And that causes its own issues.

The .22 and .38Spl cowboy loads don't rotate the gun in this sort of grip but the shots from 44Mag SBH sure do! With the SBH, even with two hands, the recoil rotates the grips through my hold so my grip ends up around to the front of the neck curve with each shot. If I shot any .357Mag from the cowboy guns I'd expect it to do the same. The black powder .44's are in between. I get a bit of shift with them and need to reset the grip each shot.

 

[murf]

good to see all the interest in single-action accuracy.

fwiw, i use a "firm handshake" grip on all my handguns. with the "sa" type pistol, i try to not fight the recoil and let the weapon rotate naturally in my hand(s). i had a tendency to squeeze the grip harder during recoil to prevent the "roll".

consistency before, during and after the shot is the key imop.

murf

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

I agree, however you decide to grip a single action revolver, do it consistently.

I shoot 45 Colt revolvers, 2nd Gen Colts, clones, and Rugers in Cowboy Action Shooting. My loads are not light, I fill the case with FFg Black Powder under a 250 grain bullet. Recoil is stout, but not overwhelming. I always shoot what we call Duelist style, in other words, one handed. I always curl my pinky under the grip, I never try to cram my entire hand onto the grip. I do not grasp the gun with a death grip, as a matter of fact I hold it relatively lightly. I make no effort to prevent the gun from recoiling. Trying to prevent recoil is a good way to induce flinching, which results in actually pushing the muzzle down as the trigger is pulled. This is very bad for accurate shooting. The grip does rotate in my hand, rising to about 45 degrees, then it lifts my forearm up a bit. I allow the gun to recoil as much as it wants. I cock the hammer as I bring the gun down, cocking the hammer with the muzzle raised actually brings the hammer spur closer to the thumb.

The secret to this is actually the opposite of what we have been taught for years in modern shooting. I do not attempt to hold the gun high on the grip. Yes, we have all been taught that holding high will reduce muzzle rise. Instead, I hold quite low on the grip, with my pinky under the grip. Holding the gun this way opens up about 1/4" of space between the rear of the trigger guard and the knuckle of my middle finger. That 1/4" of space means the trigger guard never whacks my knuckle in recoil, and I can shoot my loads all day long without getting my knuckle rapped by the trigger guard.

 

[CraigC]

Forgot that I had these pics.

 

[BCRider]

Craig, my current grip tends to sit a touch lower than yours from the picture. And I think I tend to have my hand twisted around to the thumb side a little more such that the first knuckles of my thumb and trigger finger are almost at the same height or maybe with my thumb knuckle just a hair higher.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy Again

Thanks for the excellent photo. I tend to hold just a tad lower than that. It opens up a little bit more space between the rear of the trigger guard and my knuckle. Probably not much of a recoil with a 38, but it makes a difference with a 45.

 

[gazpacho]

Try this method for finding the correct grip.

Unload your revolver. Check it. Check it again.

Hold the revolver loosely in your hand with your finter on the trigger.

Let your hand drop down to your side, and jiggle the revolver in your hand until the revolver seems to settle into a low grip position.

Grip firmly and bring the revolver back up into a shooting position. From there, you can use your second hand in a saucer and teacup position.

The plowshare grip is part of the recoil control scheme of the SAA revolver. Recoil impulse will rotate the firearm from a low grip to a high grip position, if the caliber is stout enough.

 

[CraigC]

The teacup grip is best left to movies. In the real world, it offers little to the shooter. Get that support hand around the sixgun so it can do some good.

Recoil should rotate the sixgun 'with' your hand, it should not slide around in your hand like a bar of soap. You should not have to reposition your hand between shots.

 

[BCRider]

Recoil should rotate the sixgun 'with' your hand, it should not slide around in your hand like a bar of soap. You should not have to reposition your hand between shots.

You need to tell this to my Super Blackhawk when shooting full bore .44Mag. Or even my cowboy guns the odd time I've shot some .357Mag through them.

With lighter loads held two handed wrap around style with .38Spl or with the .22's from the Single Six no problem. But with the bigger stuff and the shape of the plowshare style grips some movement of the gun up and around in the grip is going to happen. WIth the shape of the grips there's just no way it won't. And that is despite using the full wrap two hand grip like Jerry M uses on my SBH. No teacup nonsense for me.

On the cowboy guns shooting .38Spl I shoot "duelist style" so it's one hand. They don't move much with a firm grip but they do still move. If I gripped hard enough to avoid any shift of the grips I'd be shaking too much to shoot the gun well.

I'd be willing to bet dollars to donuts that your SAA and other plowshare grip guns are shifting a bit in your grip as well. Even with lighter cartridges like .38Spl. You're likely just resetting the small shift when you cock the hammer for the next shot without realizing it. It would be interesting to see what happens if you got a hold and held it steady for a whole cylinder's worth of shooting while someone reached over and cocked the hammer for the 5 or 6 shots. Then see where the web of your strong hand is after all the shots were done. I'll bet that it'll have crept up and around the neck of the grips by at least a little. Or perhaps you'd feel the creep partway through with your pinky angle from being indexed on the base.

 

[CraigC]

Single action revolver shooting is what I do. I'm well aware of everything going on. My hand doesn't move on the grip whether I'm cocking with the left or right thumb, or during shooting. Your sixgun should not be sliding around in your hand like a wet bar of soap.

Nor do I shift my grip to reach the hammer.