Safe shopping and insulating.

[Deus Machina]

Went to Dick's with most of my paycheck to grab a 10-gun double-door Stack-On cabinet (whoo!)/($299), and the display they had out seemed flimsier than I remember.

It's mostly to dissuade the smash-and-grab robbers, but any one of them with any long instrument could pry this open.

They didn't have any in the back they could sell me, so I decided to save up another bit and get an actual safe.

Now, the 19-gun convertible safe they have there is nice, but at $449 (the non-sale price) is a bit more. Roughly 16 cubic feet from the dimensions on the website, but I'm guessing that's the outside. It can hold 16 guns, or 12 plus storage space.

Lowes has the 12CU Centurion for $369 in the store, but supposedly only holds 12 long guns, and doesn't have the horizontal space, while it is a bit taller.

Home Depot also has a nice one, but I'm discounting that for now; I need the storage space as well as the gun storage--probably more so.

The Centurion advertises a 20-minute fire rating, and the Stack-On says 'resistant' on the tag, but has no actual rating.

So, does anyone have anything good or bad to say about either of these? Other relatively sturdy, inexpensive (say, $500 at the absolute most), and local alternatives?

And since these aren't solidly fireproof, is there a way to insulate them further from that? Make them waterproof, too? I'm on a second floor, but years ago the apartment I was in (same complex) got flooded by the sprinklers in the apartment above going off, and I don't want the butts of my rifles or the floor of my safe ruined.

 

[Cyclimus]

Stack-Ons are basically green-painted lock boxes. They're great for keeping curious young hands away but they're woefully thin in terms of steel thickness. (I am an owner, but only because we're currently renting and I ain't hauling a 500# safe up a flight of stairs out of my basement. I'll take the 35# Stack-On for that.

You could go to some expensive and buy fire-retardant fiberglass insulation and insulate it externally, but doing so internally would be worthless because there are mounting holes drilled in the back and bottom of each Stack-On. These holes compromise the integrity of the unit in terms of fire/water resistance.

In terms of security, there are things you can do to improve the Stack-Ons strength that are easier. First is to utilize the mounting holes. Make sure you're tapping into studs, concrete, brick, etc so you gain the strength of the structure. Hiding it is even better.

For instance, I have a hidden closet in my basement which has limited room to maneuver which means there is limited room to utilize tools such as a crowbar or axe to open it up. Granted, this made installation a problem, but I'm flexible and had the right tools for the job. I further fortified it by building a stud frame for it inside the closet (about a 2 hour job total) and mounting the Stack-On to my frame (which will prevent tipping, kicking, bashing, turning etc). I did this with spare lumber I had laying about, so my wife was happy too.

All in all, the Stack On is ok. In a fire, it'd be a total loss, but in a smash and grab - one glance and they'll just take my TV and run.

 

[netav8tor]

Hide the safe if possible.

For the holes being an entrance for fire the solution is high temperature silicone. Use this on all areas that fire could breach the safe.

There is no safe that is perfect, the only one I know of starts with an architect and end with a vault door .
Good luck

 

[Deus Machina]

Well, thanks for the advice. Since it's pretty universal, I'll have to keep that in mind to try out.

But the Stack-on safe (not the cabinet I originally went for) really is a safe, complete with the muffled and satisfying 'thump-CLUNK' when you close it. It's just a standard safe with the Stack-On brand stuck on it.

As for hiding and fastening it, I'm in a second-floor apartment that's as low-crime as any area around Tampa is, right now. I can't really hide it (little storage space as it is) and I'm not worried about a professional carrying it off or breaking into it without being obvious, but I don't want it to be easy.

 

[crazy-mp]

At least make them work for it, if your worried about someone still getting it, get some cable gunlocks and lock them all together, it would be hard carrying out 8 or 10 guns at once especially if they were all locked together. Might also pull the bolts out of your bolt action guns or your AR (if you have one) Pawn shops probably wouldn’t give too much for a gun with no bolt.

Just don’t loose them.

Just another .02

 

[jwPhotographer]

Actually, funny you should say this. I just did this 2 weeks ago - I went up to Dick's to get the same cabinet, and ended up getting the same Stack-On convertible safe you looked at.

(Except mine's black)

Zero complaints, very happy with it - and not in the least bit sorry I got it.

[EDITED - Notice, holes on inside for bolting to wall - one top left, one bottom right which you can't see. Even comes with the hardware to do so, although I chucked their hardware in favor of toggle style drywall fasteners. Doesn't even wiggle the slightest bit.]

 

[Black07GT]

If you want to give the safe a fire rating it is actually pretty easy to do. Go to your local lumber yard and by the special sheetrock that they use for a fire wall. Then get a carpet that is like they use in higher end safes and staple it to the sheetrock then use an adhesive like liquid nails to adhere to the safe. I did this on my first safe it took some time but I got some peace of mind.

 

[ants]

I'm no expert. Just a few words from my humble and limited experience.

A light safe is way better for a second floor structure. Once you add guns and ammo and accessories and the stuff you stack on top, the sucker will weigh nearly a thousand pounds anyway. My safe (a real safe) is large, empty weighs 780 and fully loaded weighs 1,320 pounds. That includes the ammo. Nothing wrong with a quarter ton of ammo in the bottom of the safe, no thief will pick up the safe and carry it away. Just make sure your floor won't sag and crack the ceiling below.

Fire resistance (nothing is actually fire proof) is achieved by putting gypsum board (yes, drywall) on the inside. Not the outside. Just sheets of it glued to the inside covering all holes, including a sheet on the floor covering the hold down bolt holes. This is what the $2000 safes do. Each 1/2" layer adds approx 20 minutes, a 5/8" layer adds 30 minutes. Add up layers for more hours of protection. Wrap the drywall in cloth before gluing and you have instant upholstery. Do it yourself.

If you can, put the safe in a closet and bolt it to the floor. They'll beat on it for a minute, then abandon it. I would too. I have a metal airsoft pistol on top of the safe in a real Taurus box. They'll steal that instead. Suckers!!!

It doesn't matter what safe you buy, you will completely fill it up the first night and start saving money for another one. Just buy what you can afford. Buy another one later if you need it.

The bad part of an inexpensive safe is the lock. After a few years, it's a 50/50 chance that it freezes up and won't open again. You'll have to grind through the steel with a grinder or cutoff tool.

The good part of an expensive safe is the lock. And the heavy door.

Save packs of dessicant to keep the insides nice and dry.

I always thought of marketing a gun safe that looks like a freezer with a child lock on the door, put it in the laundry room and the thief will walk right past it. The outside door is just a shell. Inside is a real door with combination lock and cross bolts.

Are safes with biometric locks reliable? One of my clients uses them and the system works, but they spent a ton of money on it.