Safes and storage

[56FordGuy]

Here recently, I've begun shopping for a gun safe. I've read numerous buyers guides, looked at a bunch of different manufacturer web sites, and have found myself stuck. I tend to really analyze things, to the point that "I need a gun safe" has me picking contractors to build a steel and cement 'safe room' on the end of the house. Fortunately, I have a wife to administer a reality check before heavy equipment is pulling into the yard.

What do y'all think reasonable security is? Is having a good safe bolted to the wall studs good enough? Naturally, a safe bolted to a cement surface is better, but what about when the house doesn't sit on a cement pad? Is it an important enough issue to actually cut a section of wood floor and pour a cement base from ground level to floor level to put the safe on, or perhaps running threaded rods from inside the safe to steel bars that run beneath the floor joists of the house is an acceptable substitute?

For safe location, I've seen it recommended in multiple places to hide the safe, in a closet or behind a false wall. Naturally that's better than it being out in the open, but how many folks actually do it? If I were to try to find a safe appropriately sized to fit into one of my existing closets, that's going to significantly reduce the size and capacity I can find, to the point that the safe is either just big enough for what a currently own, or perhaps even too small now, which puts me right back at the beginning.

Then there's the safe itself. From what I've read, the thinnest metal I want is 10 gauge, and the safe should weigh at least 750 pounds. External hinges are okay, so long as the door has locking pins on all four sides; the more pins the better, but once you get more than 12 locking pins it doesn't make as much of a difference. A relocker is practically necessary, and considering my price range I would probably be well advised to stick to manual combination locks. The more I have to spend on a safe the better, but I'm limited to right around $1500.00 right now.

I know each situation is different, but I'm just looking for a bit of advice as I try to figure this out. Thanks!

 

[Stevie-Ray]

A1abdj and CB900 should be along shortly. They can point you in the right direction to a real safe. 1500 bucks should be enough to get a decent one, though real protection can cost a bunch. Mine is a Winchester RSC made by Granite Security, 600 lbs, and it's fine for my use now. Perhaps a real one will come when I'm settled in my final home. Like you, I'd really love to do the "safe room" thing.

 

[jkingrph]

Mine is a Winchester, bu Meinike(sp) safe co. Weighs about 1700 lbs empty and is bolted to the floor. This is a commercial records safe converted to a gun safe. Door and door frame are quite substancial. Sidewalls, top, bottom and back I'm not so sure. The easiest way t open one without the combination is to tip over and go in through the bottom, or the back. I learned this from my father who in the office equipment business sold many "safes".

 

[Jeff F]

The Fort Knox safes are probably the best on the market today. They are pricey though.

 

[Kindrox]

What is the dollar value of what you are protecting? The "rule of thumb" I read while researching what safe to purchase was to put 10-20% of the value you want to protect into the safe.

That said, buying an expensive safe but bolting it to the wall won't make sense. And buying an inexpensive safe and paying $2000 to pour concrete won't either.

One word of advice. Where I live craigslist is full of safes for sale. Real ones with security ratings for a small fraction of a "gun safe" with only an RSC rating.

 

[lonegunman]

"A1abdj" has a storefront security business and knows his stuff. I think the AMSEC Burglary and Fire rated safes are great, they have heavy doors and walls. They may be close to the upper edge of your price range.


From a personal stand point, buy as much safe as possible. Bigger and stronger are better and in the long run you will be happier you spent more and got quality.

When I build my set-up I went for the most volume and best security I could afford. With the cost of guns going nowhere but up, good security is a must.

If you spend 800-1000 dollars on a single gun, spending 2000 dollars on a safe is not out of line. It can be used to store important papers and the wife's jewels as well.

 

[56FordGuy]

Lots of good info here. After hearing that A1abdj is actually in the security business, I searched for posts by him and have found a ton of good information, both from him and a couple of other folks. I've spent the last hour or so reading through it, and that's only a couple of threads.

Honestly, I'd not considered used safes. I've sent an email about a Mosler on Craigslist, and am reading up on Amsec safes now. If anything, this thread has given me more reading to do. I feel like I'm learning quite a bit. Thanks!

 

[a1abdj]

I think you're on the right track by reading what myself and CB900F have posted in the past.

A few things to keep in mind:

Used safes can be great deals, but can also pose you with some serious issues. Many of the used safes that we buy off of craigslist need work. Some of this work is not cheap. By time you replace the locks, rebuild misc. worn pieces at the machine shop, and rebuild the hinges to keep the door from dragging you might be able to afford a new one.

Used commercial safes also tend to be very heavy. Not only do they need usually need a professional to move, but they do not handle stairs or wood structures well. If you are planning on keeping the safe in the garage or a walk out basement, this will not be a problem. We had posted a "safes wanted" add on craiglist once, and had a guy call wanting to sell a "gun safe". It weighed 6,000 pounds.

If you run across anything used that you have questions about, or you have any other questions, don't hesitate to post here or send me a PM.

 

[jakemccoy]

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[jakemccoy]

The security of your safe should be relative to how much you value your guns. All my guns are utilitarian and easily replaceable. My safe is there to keep out kids, wandering guests, and low-level thieves. I didn't even opt for fire protection.

Any type of fire protection is useless for me in California. You may have seen California fires on TV. There's no safe that I can afford that can withstand a California fire.

Regarding the extra security, I figure you're either going for the gold or merely participating in the race. In other words, I figure you're dealing either with a dedicated thief or with a thief that quits at merely seeing a safe. You need to go for the gold if you want to protect yourself against a dedicated thief. Buying security that's in between is a waste of money.

When I was shopping for safes, I realized that security can always go that one step up. It's endless. After putting things into perspective, I realized I don't need the final frontier in security and saved thousands of dollars. I prefer to spend money on good insurance.

 

[Carlos Cabeza]

My brother recently remodeled his home and added a decent Cannon safe. His wife wanted a new walk-in closet so the safe went in the back of the closet. Inside, he used 3/4 " plywood, on double studs spaced at 12 " centers, with #8 SS deck screws holding it all together. Then he sheetrocked and finished it out. He used a steel door with double deadbolts and hinges were screwed with 6 " screws throught the studs. I thought he did a pretty good job. You can't even see the safe though all the clothes.

The safe is bolted to the floor BTW.