Safety question about NAA Mini-revolvers for CCW

[ArthurDent]

Greetings all,

A lot of folks seem to carry the North-American Arms Mini-revovlers. This seems to me like a very dangerous thing to do. It looks to me like it is too easy to cause a negligent discharge. Here's my thinking on this:

The NAA revolvers have a large hammer that sticks out of their frame. I know that the hammer can be parked in the safety slot between rounds. But in pocket carry, or any kind of carry for that matter, it still seems to me that it would be very easy for the hammer to get pulled back. Once the hammer is cocked, the cylinder would be rotated to place a live round under the hammer. If the trigger was bumped, then you would have a negligent discharge. I know this might sound far-fetched to some, but all sorts of crazy things happen to my keys in my pockets. (Yet another reason why I have a hard and fast rule that keys can NOT go in the same pocket with a pocket-carry gun.)

The only safe way that I can see that one could carry this tiny revolver would be in a holster that fully shrouded the hammer and trigger with totally non-flexible material, and had enough retention to keep the revolver from leaving the holster accidentally. It seems to me that it would be very difficult to draw quickly from such a holster.

FWIW, I do not own one of these mini-revolvers. They are beautiful, but because of this issue I do not see how they could serve as a CCW. I mostly carry a S&W 642 which has a heavy trigger, and I use holsters that fully shroud the trigger guard.

Also, I'm not asking about caliber. I would not want to use a .22 for any defensive situation. I'm only asking about the safety issue, and only because I see so many folks that say they carry them.

Seriously, I am NOT trying to flame NAA. I would appreciate answers from folks who know more about this than me. This problem has bugged me for some months now.

ArthurDent

 

[2FNSLO]

I carried one in my front pocket on and off for several months and never had an issue. I didn't put anything else in the pocket with it though. I never felt that it was unsafe in any way. Maybe if you don't have full control of your hands I could see an issue, but then again, you probably shouldn't carry if you have that problem.
I carried it in both shorts and in dress pants. Mine was the convertible one and I carried .22mag. I did get rid of it because I felt very under gunned when I carried it and it eventually found a home in my safe.
They are very well made IMHO.

 

[TheProf]

1. You are correct on your concerns. Therefore, a holster that covers the trigger area and at least part of the hammer is a must.

 

[DrLaw]

Let's put it this way. If the concerns that you have there, A-D, were really a problem, the gun would have been taken off the market by the manufacturer, who would have been sued out of existence by the accidental discharges. Since they are a thriving manufacturer of quality firearms, the opposite must be true.

Search these forums and you will see that there is really nothing about the little guns having premature ejacketedulations.

The Doc is out now.

 

[Vonderek]

If pocket holster carry bothers you, you would probably freak out with this. I carry mine like this around my neck and am totally safe.

I think your concern is akin to worrying about carrying a 1911 cocked with safety on and somehow contorting your body to knock the safety off and pull the trigger. There is no way you are going to accidentally cock and then fire a NNA mini that is holstered and in your pocket or around your neck on on your belt.

 

[dogrunner]

I dunno. I'm a retired LEO & carried one (still do) for way over twenty years barebones in either my pants or shirt pocket.........never have used a holster and never will, nor have I ever noted any change in hammer position.

Fact is, the only accident with those guns I've ever heard of was WITH a holster.....NAA requested I testify on their behalf relative to the usefulness of the guns in a LE situation, I agreed, but they elected to settle out of court as the cost factor in going to trial was eating them up.....In short, some fool in Jacksonville tried to holster his NAA mini, apparently did not have the hammer in the safety slot and somehow managed to pop himself in his right cheek.........hope it felt good......likely that's the only way some people can get educated!

Far as it goes, I do not see any issue.....hammer spring's strong, can't imagine just how someone could 'ear' that hammer back from an undamaged or unmodified gun........most certainly it is no more a hazard that a cocked and locked M/1911!

 

[DrLaw]

I used to carry a cocked/loaded Sterling .22 semi-auto as a backup in an inner jacket pocket. It was striker fired.

Didn't do any good if I had to ask a bad guy to wait while I racked the slide.

Never had any problems with it, either. It all boils down to your trust of the gun and of your capabilities to not do something stupid in setting up the gun.

It's the same with the Mini NAA's.

The Doc is out now.

 

[ArmedBear]

IF the hammer is ever cocked accidentally (highly unlikely because the spring tension is non-trivial and the leverage is limited due to the small hammer and spur), it will most likely go to the half-cock notch.

A single action can't be fired by pulling the trigger, when at half-cock.

I have a leather IWB holster (a tiny one) for mine, and it has NEVER come out of the safety notch. Never, not ever. But if it did, the chance of it ending up cocked so it can be fired by pulling the trigger is even lower. I have no more qualms about carrying it than my 642.

It's not exactly a hand cannon. However, I honestly see less likelihood of an accidental discharge with the NAA Mini, than with many concealed carry guns.

 

[Ron James]

Non Issue, as Mr. Dent himself posted, he has never owned one, never carried one and probably never fired one. So in effect he is just talking out of his hat.

 

[weisse52]

This problem has bugged me for some months now.

OK, well now you can put this fear to rest.
I also carried one for quite a while and never had a problem. NAA builds a little swiss watch of a gun. They are safe and I would feel perfectly safe putting one in my pocket on the saftey notch.

 

[bglz42]

Non-issue. Over 20 years in my pocket every day, never a problem. I defy anyone to "accidentally" cock an NAA. Ain't gonna happen.

 

[ArthurDent]

Thanks, All!

Thanks for the answers.

I think the two most relevant answers (although also covered by others) are:

If the concerns that you have there, A-D, were really a problem, the gun would have been taken off the market by the manufacturer, who would have been sued out of existence by the accidental discharges. Since they are a thriving manufacturer of quality firearms, the opposite must be true.

and

IF the hammer is ever cocked accidentally (highly unlikely because the spring tension is non-trivial and the leverage is limited due to the small hammer and spur), it will most likely go to the half-cock notch.

The think I was probably missing is just how strong you all say the hammer spring actually is.

Maybe I'm more physically active than most, but I don't think so. However, strange things happens to stuff in my pockets as I move around all day. I tend to carry a lot of stuff, and it gets all twisted and tangled just by my normal movement, not by random hands in pockets. I would still be concerned about pulling the hammer, at least back to half-cocked. (Again, that as my reasoning for my 642 in an Uncle Mike's holster when I pocket-carry: NOTHING exposed to get messed with, trigger fully covered, and a very heavy trigger pull in any case! Also, NOTHING else in the pocket. So far it stays put nicely.)

And yes, DrLaw, I've wondered why I didn't hear about lawsuits if as many folks are pocket-carrying as seem to be, and this problem actually existed in the real world.

I've wanted one of these little NAA jewels for some time, but mostly because of the apparent quality of construction, and for the novelty.

OK, well now you can put this fear to rest.

Thank you all. I will put this fear to rest.

 

[Walkalong]

I bought one 31 years ago when I turned 21. I have carried it a great deal over those 31 years. No worries. I did make a "carrier" for it many years ago for it to ride in when in my pocket. I also made a little holster for it.

Link

 

[johnnylaw53]

I always feel a need to comment on the NAA when it comes up. I have the .22 lr and have carried it off and on for a long time. When people say they would never think of using it for SD I like to think back on cases I have work or been involved in some way. Also news stories, where if the victim would of had some kind of weapon even one of these things more then not would of turn out a lot diffence. I have found them to be just as safe as any other weapon and well made. Maybe they shouldn't be your first weapon one buy for SD and maybe not even the 2nd but as you build your SD tool box I think a lot of people would be served well having one of the NAA around for those times when nothing eles will do. oh yea almost forgot they are a lot of fun to shoot.

be safe

 

[bigfatdave]

FWIW, I do not own one of these mini-revolvers. They are beautiful, but because of this issue I do not see how they could serve as a CCW. I mostly carry a S&W 642 which has a heavy trigger, and I use holsters that fully shroud the trigger guard.

I've wanted one of these little NAA jewels for some time, but mostly because of the apparent quality of construction, and for the novelty.

Statement two would make statement one obviously wrong. Or borrowing a friend's NAA mini for some experimenting. (they aren't something I see at the rental ranges for some reason ... I wonder why?)

I loaded up spent casings in mine and TRIED to get the hammer to drop on a round, with various manipulations of the hammer/trigger. Not going to happen in a pocket, even getting it out of the safety notch required manipulation implausible for a pocket environment.
If the design STILL bothers you, get one with a holster grip, which does cover the trigger.

That being said, I still find the lack of a trigger-guard disturbing, and have been pondering ordering yet another spare grip and adding a TG to the grip (just mounting something to protrude from the grip well below the trigger, and curve upwards. More to make myself feel better than any real need, besides having somewhere to index my finger as I keep it off the trigger.

Honestly, I worry more about a ND while inserting the cylinder and cylinder pin ... and the way the design requires my fingers to be ahead of the muzzle makes me pay extra attention as I load a "hot" cylinder into the little thing. I don't plan on ever reloading under stress, if I foresaw such a situation I would have a second mini rather than a reload.

 

[MCgunner]

I've heard of concerns over the posibility of something striking a rim on a round as there's no protection for the ammo, no flange like on a normal revolver, but never heard anyone worry about a hammer cocking itself. I've been carrying mine not stop for about 25 years in a pocket and hever have I had that happen. It does have a safety notch and would likely drop there if it were to be partially cocked. I carry mine in a holster grip that does fold up over the trigger and does give the exposed rims of the ammo in the cylinder some protection, but I like the holster grip for making the gun shootable while remaining concealable, not from any safety concerns. I do NOT consider the gun unsafe else I wouldn't carry it. It's always with me in my weak side pocket. There's change in there with it which some would wince at, but my strong side pocket is taken up by a 9mm at the moment. I just tote the little mini because it's no hassle to do and could bail me out of a jam someday. And, heck, I've used it a lot on vermin and such afield. It's a handy little tool. It is the only gun I have on me while wade fishing, though I don't know if I've ever heard of anyone being accosted while wade fishing around here. I clip it to the top of my Tee shirt with the belt clip to keep it out of the water.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Maybe I'm more physically active than most, but I don't think so. However, strange things happens to stuff in my pockets as I move around all day. I tend to carry a lot of stuff, and it gets all twisted and tangled just by my normal movement, not by random hands in pockets.

Smart people don't carry other objects in the same pocket as a firearm.

 

[markallen]

I have owned one for over twenty years, and carried it most times without a holster, upside down in the watch/ lighter pocket in my jeans.
Never had any problems. Still carry as a BUG, in a kydex holster around my neck.
I always wanted the pop out belt buckle, but never got around to getting one.
I remember when I bought it, my brother laughed at me. We went out shooting, He with his .38 special I with my NNA mini.
We both took aim at gallon milk jugs filled with water. He was shooting wadcutters, and I had mine loaded with CCI Stinger hollow points.
He shot his jug, a hole in the front, and back, and water pouring out like a spigot. I shot my jug, and it exploded, ripping the front half of the jug, top to bottom, and splitting the back almost in two.
Now granted he was shooting target load wadcutters, but still the Mini was impressive.
He didn't laugh anymore, just went out and bought one for himself.
They are SAFE to carry, and they do fill a niche ( specialy the COOL Factor).

 

[ArmedBear]

I've heard of concerns over the posibility of something striking a rim on a round as there's no protection for the ammo, no flange like on a normal revolver

Huh?

Mine's recessed. Aren't they all?

 

[Coyote3855]

Another vote for the safety of the NAA. I carried one for years before CCW permit becamae available. Never had any problem or felt unsafe. They are solidly built and function as designed. Now I carry it only as a deep cover backup to a handgun better suited to self defense.

 

[MCgunner]

Huh?

Mine's recessed. Aren't they all?

Yeah, but if you look at it, the rim can be struck by something, if you're banging into a bench or something, from the side of the gun. The holster grip does sort of protect it from such, though, as anything external that hits the gun will hit the grip the gun is folded up in. I ain't sayin' it happens, but it COULD conceivably happen. Some guy posted about this some time back and I'd never thought about it before. I'm not real worried about it, though, especially with the holster grip and, well, if it was a problem, like a previous post said, you'd think they'd have been battling lawsuits big time. Such apparently is NOT the case. Many folks carry 'em.

Another vote for the safety of the NAA. I carried one for years before CCW permit becamae available.

That's what I'd originally bought mine for at a gun show back in the mid 80s. I've carried it mosly non stop since, not had problems. Before 96, we didn't have a CCW law, was a class A misdemeanor and even keeping one in your car was verboten. Back then it was, the "judged by 12 or carried by 6" logic. But, I really didn't wanna get caught with a handgun. I'd carried a cheap .25 Auto for years, but the little mini just seemed like a better gun for the job. That .25 worked, but I couldn't hit crap with it. The mini is almost accurate. LOL!

 

[ArmedBear]

I do carry mine in a tiny leather IWB holster. It's too pretty to thrash it on purpose.

I suppose you're right, you could bang the rims against something from the side, if you hit them just right with something small and hard enough.

Even if you did, I'm not sure that it would be easy to set off the rimfire, since doing so requires a hard hit of the rim from back to front, to pinch the two layers of sheetmetal together and set off the primer between the layers that make up the rim.

 

[jcs271]

They are NOT all notched, I bought a 22lr model 25? years ago and it did not have the cylinder notches cut in it. I bought the 22mag several years later and it did have the notches.

 

[coach22]

Regarding the safety notch, if your gun doesn't have one,
NAA will replace the cylinder at no charge.
Just give them a call at 800-821-5783.

I have a 22 mag with a 1 & 1/8 inch barrel and the slip on rubber grips.
Oversized Slip- On Rubber.
http://www.naaminis.com/maggrip22.html
Same grips they put on the PUG.
http://www.naaminis.com/pug.html

Years ago, I bought a pocket holster from NAA (not nylon).
Wet, Molded Leather, Designed by Thad Rybka, with Ammo Pouch.
http://www.naaminis.com/mag_hol.html
The only thing was, the bottom was open, which equals lint.
So I had my shoe repair guy stitch the bottom shut.
It even holds 5 extra rounds in the thumb snapped side pouch.

 

[bglz42]

Mine rides in a Thad Rybka, also. The best design I've ever seen, and just gets better with age. Good idea on sewing the bottom shut. I've been blowing the lint out of mine for years!