Safety Warning

[ArchAngelCD]

Wow, I'm very glad you are fine and it's a shame about the revolver. Thank you for posting the thread, it's a good reminder no matter how good we are accidents can and will happen if we get a little distraction.

I Will Not Go Into What Went Wrong since you already know exactly what happened. I do appreciate your reminder and again, I'm very relieved you are fine...

Too bad your press doesn't support the use of a Powder Cop since mistakes are so much more likely with a progressive press than any other. I can understand not wanting to change presses with all that money already invested.

 

[IROCZ]

I thank GOD you are okay. I do alot of loading on a Dillion 550 also. One of the first things I did was rig up a small LED light that shines on the powder drop station and make it a point to look in to the case before setting the projectile on top, Sorry for your loss.

 

[788Ham]

Hondo,
Sorry about your SP, I hope mine never looks that sad! Thanking God you're okay, the missing fingers was the first thought when I saw it, glad those are still attached! This incident has really made me more aware when I reload for mine, I won't reload if my mind is on other things, too many other distractions, be safe Hondo, get another piece soon.

 

[Hondo 60]

With Christmas having just past, it'll be a couple of months for me to save up again.
I'm guessing March or April, if the obamanation doesn't outlaw concealable guns by then.

 

[twofifty]

Hondo, thanks for telling us about your misadventure.
Your post is timely as I've been contemplating switching to TG for my 9...think I'll pass and go for something bulkier.

 

[Ehtereon11B]

Thankfully you are okay. Along with all your fingers.

I remember my first double charge on .35Rem using LR powder. I caught it in time since it overfilled the case and just that freaked me out to the point where I didn't want to load the rest of the batch I was working on for a few days. Can't imagine one of my handloads blowing up like that.

After my double charge I bought another loading tray. I keep all the cases waiting to be charged to the left of my powder dispenser. I put all the charged cases to the right of the dispenser. Looks like a small assembly line. Haven't had any close calls or mixups so it works for me.

 

[1SOW]

Hondo, glad you got a "painless" lesson, and sorry you lost the gun.

I heard a similar story concerning Titegroup years ago after I started reloading. That and the negative characteristics of the powder influenced me not to use it.
Many light load competitors do-successfully and swear by it, but there are better powders with good characteristics.

 

[CMD-Ky]

I did an undercharge one time on a 550. I put a lock-out in station 3 with an RCBS seater/crimp die in station 4. It is a little clumsy but I have developed a rhythm and it works for me. No harm was done but shook me badly.

 

[Hungry1]

Wow! Thanks for posting that. Good example of the toughness of Ruger revolvers. Glad you're okay. I bet that was one hell of a blast!

I wonder if you contacted Ruger, if they'd be able to replace the frame? Might be less expensive than replacing the whole gun.

Good Luck

 

[45_auto]

The auto-indexing was one of the primary reasons I went with a 650 instead of a 550 when I went to a progressive in the early 90's.

My experience has been that to get a double charge on an auto-indexer like the 650 you have to do something REALLY stupid , like take the case out and move it back a station. If for some reason you don't get a full stroke (both ways) on the handle, STOP immediately and find out why. On a 550 or similar, all it takes is another pull on the handle for a double charge.

 

[weemsf]

Glad you are well.

Sell the 550 and accessories, you will get a good portion of your money out of it. Buy the 650. I used to load on a Hornady Projector, 5 stage, but pre LNL. Got rid of it to get the 550.

 

[armarsh]

Here is the data about your titegroup load. I used a Hornady XTP. Quickload estimates that the double charge was over 120,000 psi.

Cartridge          : .357 Magnum (SAAMI)
Bullet             : .357, 125, Hornady HP/XTP 35710
Useable Case Capaci: 19.066 grain H2O = 1.238 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 1.590 inch = 40.39 mm
Barrel Length      : 5.0 inch = 127.0 mm
Powder             : Hodgdon TiteGroup

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-20.0   39     5.60   1081     324   21361   4358    100.0    0.585
-18.0   40     5.74   1097     334   22285   4454    100.0    0.575
-16.0   41     5.88   1114     344   23229   4549    100.0    0.563
-14.0   42     6.02   1130     354   24192   4644    100.0    0.552
-12.0   43     6.16   1146     365   25175   4739    100.0    0.541
-10.0   44     6.30   1162     375   26178   4834    100.0    0.530
-08.0   45     6.44   1177     385   27201   4929    100.0    0.520
-06.0   46     6.58   1193     395   28244   5023    100.0    0.511
-04.0   47     6.72   1208     405   29308   5117    100.0    0.502
-02.0   48     6.86   1223     415   30392   5211    100.0    0.493  ! Near Maximum !
+00.0   49     7.00   1238     426   31497   5305    100.0    0.484  ! Near Maximum !
+02.0   50     7.14   1253     436   32622   5398    100.0    0.476  ! Near Maximum !
+04.0   51     7.28   1268     446   33769   5491    100.0    0.468  ! Near Maximum !
+06.0   52     7.42   1282     457   34936   5584    100.0    0.461  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0   53     7.56   1297     467   36126   5677    100.0    0.454  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0   54     7.70   1311     477   37337   5769    100.0    0.447  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba     49     7.00   1252     435   34492   5249    100.0    0.466  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba     49     7.00   1219     413   28192   5383    100.0    0.509

Here is the same thing using Green Dot:

Cartridge          : .357 Magnum (SAAMI)
Bullet             : .357, 125, Hornady HP/XTP 35710
Useable Case Capaci: 19.066 grain H2O = 1.238 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 1.590 inch = 40.39 mm
Barrel Length      : 5.0 inch = 127.0 mm
Powder             : Alliant GREEN DOT

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-20.0   57     5.60   1094     332   20836   4705    100.0    0.606
-18.0   59     5.74   1112     343   21761   4806    100.0    0.594
-16.0   60     5.88   1129     354   22706   4907    100.0    0.582
-14.0   61     6.02   1146     365   23669   5008    100.0    0.569
-12.0   63     6.16   1163     375   24652   5109    100.0    0.556
-10.0   64     6.30   1179     386   25654   5209    100.0    0.545
-08.0   66     6.44   1196     397   26675   5309    100.0    0.534
-06.0   67     6.58   1212     408   27716   5409    100.0    0.523
-04.0   69     6.72   1228     419   28777   5509    100.0    0.513
-02.0   70     6.86   1244     429   29857   5609    100.0    0.503  ! Near Maximum !
+00.0   71     7.00   1260     440   30958   5708    100.0    0.494  ! Near Maximum !
+02.0   73     7.14   1275     451   32079   5807    100.0    0.485  ! Near Maximum !
+04.0   74     7.28   1290     462   33220   5906    100.0    0.477  ! Near Maximum !
+06.0   76     7.42   1306     473   34381   6005    100.0    0.468  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0   77     7.56   1321     484   35564   6103    100.0    0.460  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0   79     7.70   1335     495   36767   6202    100.0    0.453  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba     71     7.00   1276     452   34129   5638    100.0    0.472  ! Near Maximum !
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba     71     7.00   1236     424   27496   5807    100.0    0.523

The above is posted in the same spirit as the OP posting the revolver itself. I don't want to come across as rubbing it in. I want to further the discussion about choosing components (and methods) in such a way as to not cause a mistake to be amplified.

Looking at the revolver, all I could think is that must have really stung. Glad you are OK.

 

[dragon813gt]

One of the reasons I don't use Titegroup. I worry enough as it is. I don't need one more thing to worry about.

 

[Hondo 60]

Looking at the revolver, all I could think is that must have really stung. Glad you are OK.

armarsh - no worries - I took your post as intended.
Actually it didn't sting. -
The recoil pushed the gun up in the air, but it was the sound more than anything that caused me to stop & look at the gun.

I'm almost out of Tite Group. I'll use it till it's gone, but think I'll be switching to Unique??
By looking at the Load data in Lyman's 49th, nothing seems to require a larger, heavier load.
So I don't know what powder will take up more case room.

Suggestions would be appreciated.

 

[Hungry1]

I'm almost out of Tite Group. I'll use it till it's gone, but think I'll be switching to Unique??
By looking at the Load data in Lyman's 49th, nothing seems to require a larger, heavier load.
So I don't know what powder will take up more case room.

Suggestions would be appreciated.

I'm fairly new to reloading, only a few thousand rounds of .357 Magnum and .45 acp for pistol. 90% of that has been with cast lead requiring 5-6 gr of powder. Unique has worked great for me so far.

It's very easy for me to tell if the case has been double charged. I'm working with a single stage set up though. No experience with a progressive yet.

Good Luck

 

[Walkalong]

but think I'll be switching to Unique??

You'll like Unique for that application.


From Hodgdon online data for Tightgroup:

36,500 CUP 7.5 1497

There is no way on earth I want to push a 125 that fast at that pressure with a fast powder, Tightgroup or otherwise, no way, no how.

 

[Centaur 1]

I'm almost out of Tite Group. I'll use it till it's gone, but think I'll be switching to Unique??
By looking at the Load data in Lyman's 49th, nothing seems to require a larger, heavier load.
So I don't know what powder will take up more case room.

Suggestions would be appreciated.

I'm glad that you weren't hurt. I did something similar the very first time I reloaded for a pistol. Not just one, but two out of 50 were double charged. I was using a fairly mild charge of Bulleye in a .38 special load, and luckily I was using my .357 S&W 19. No harm to the gun, just very loud. I've shied away from fast powders ever since.

Unique is a good powder, extremely consistent when using dippers. My Hornady powder measure doesn't like it though, it really binds up the rotor. See what others say about how it works in the powder measure that you use. The last year or so I've been using a lot of Power Pistol, it meters great and burns way cleaner than Unique. For light revolver loads I like using Trail Boss, especially in older guns that I don't want to abuse.

 

[armarsh]

....Suggestions would be appreciated.

From mild to wild:

Cartridge          : .357 Magnum (SAAMI)
Bullet             : .357, 125, Hornady HP/XTP 35710
Useable Case Capaci: 19.066 grain H2O = 1.238 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 1.590 inch = 40.39 mm
Barrel Length      : 5.0 inch = 127.0 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.

Matching Maximum Pressure: 30624 psi, or 211 MPa

or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 105 %

These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

11 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 65%. These powders have been skipped.

Powder type          Filling/Loading Ratio  Charge    Charge   Vel. Prop.Burnt P max  P muzz  B_Time
                                      %     Grains    Gramm   fps     %       psi     psi    ms
---------------------------------  -----------------------------------------------------------------
Hodgdon Lil'Gun                    102.7     18.8     1.22    1476    73.5    30625   11772   0.467  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N105                     94.5     13.0     0.84    1463    93.5    30625   10481   0.472  ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Enforcer                    90.8     16.3     1.06    1439    76.7    30625   10599   0.478  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H110                       100.8     19.0     1.23    1437    67.5    30625   10763   0.478  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant 2400                        89.8     15.0     0.97    1427    75.6    30625   10319   0.480  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate No.7                       70.9     13.4     0.87    1426    85.6    30625   10045   0.479  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant POWER PISTOL                74.0     10.3     0.67    1423    94.2    30625    9650   0.474  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant BLUE DOT                    91.7     13.1     0.85    1415    84.5    30625    9834   0.478  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate No.9                       78.2     14.7     0.95    1412    79.1    30625    9806   0.477  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 4100                       93.2     16.9     1.10    1412    71.6    30625    9916   0.476  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori 3N38                     87.1     12.5     0.81    1408    89.5    30625    9426   0.478  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori 3N37                     75.2     10.2     0.66    1381    99.3    30625    8283   0.478  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N350                     78.0     10.0     0.65    1377    99.5    30625    8105   0.476  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant HERCO                       84.2      9.3     0.60    1373   100.0    30625    8040   0.487  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 5744                      102.0     16.8     1.09    1366    58.6    30625    9032   0.475  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant UNIQUE                      74.6      8.4     0.55    1356   100.0    30625    7496   0.486  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant BULLSEYE                    65.1      7.6     0.49    1350   100.0    30625    7275   0.475  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N340                     73.0      8.5     0.55    1331   100.0    30625    6892   0.481  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N110                    105.0     15.6     1.01    1327    70.0    24519    9457   0.524
Accurate 1680                      105.0     19.8     1.29    1323    50.1    29602    8291   0.479
NitroKemia REX 3/Green/36           89.4      8.6     0.56    1319   100.0    30625    6552   0.485  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N330                     68.9      7.9     0.51    1304   100.0    30625    6301   0.487  ! Near Maximum !
NitroKemia REX 2/Yellow/32          86.9      8.0     0.52    1304   100.0    30625    6286   0.483  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon Universal                   68.6      7.7     0.50    1304   100.0    30625    6444   0.493  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate Solo 1250                  73.8      7.8     0.50    1291   100.0    30625    6083   0.482  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4227                           105.0     16.9     1.09    1270    55.4    25311    7895   0.515
Alliant GREEN DOT                   71.0      7.0     0.45    1255   100.0    30625    5678   0.497  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N320                     67.1      6.9     0.45    1250   100.0    30625    5503   0.492  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4227                      105.0     16.9     1.09    1242    53.6    23728    7672   0.532
Alliant RED DOT                     71.9      6.3     0.41    1225   100.0    30625    5301   0.497  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N32C Tin Star            91.3      8.0     0.52    1179   100.0    30625    4655   0.509  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4198                      105.0     17.3     1.12    1141    43.1    20779    6295   0.570
IMR 4198                           105.0     16.5     1.07    1094    42.4    18109    5863   0.609
Vihtavuori N120                    105.0     16.8     1.09    1068    44.2    16638    5958   0.633
IMR TrailBoss                      105.0      6.2     0.40     999   100.0    17864    3798   0.641

For what you were doing with Titegroup I think you will be happy with Unique. Notice at 7.5 grains of Unique you are slightly faster than you were with 7 grains of TG, but you are still filling the case to 67% full.

Cartridge          : .357 Magnum (SAAMI)
Bullet             : .357, 125, Hornady HP/XTP 35710
Useable Case Capaci: 19.066 grain H2O = 1.238 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 1.590 inch = 40.39 mm
Barrel Length      : 5.0 inch = 127.0 mm
Powder             : Alliant UNIQUE

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-20.0   59     6.72   1143     363   19689   6178     99.2    0.608
-18.0   61     6.89   1166     377   20629   6326     99.4    0.595
-16.0   62     7.06   1187     391   21594   6468     99.7    0.583
-14.0   64     7.22   1209     406   22586   6604     99.8    0.570
-12.0   65     7.39   1230     420   23604   6736     99.9    0.557
-10.0   67     7.56   1251     434   24650   6861    100.0    0.544
-08.0   68     7.73   1271     449   25722   6982    100.0    0.532
-06.0   70     7.90   1292     463   26822   7103    100.0    0.521
-04.0   71     8.06   1312     478   27950   7223    100.0    0.510
-02.0   73     8.23   1331     492   29106   7343    100.0    0.499
+00.0   74     8.40   1351     507   30291   7463    100.0    0.489  ! Near Maximum !
+02.0   76     8.57   1370     521   31506   7583    100.0    0.479  ! Near Maximum !
+04.0   77     8.74   1389     536   32750   7702    100.0    0.470  ! Near Maximum !
+06.0   79     8.90   1408     550   34024   7820    100.0    0.461  ! Near Maximum !
+08.0   80     9.07   1426     565   35329   7939    100.0    0.452  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0   82     9.24   1445     579   36666   8057    100.0    0.444  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba     74     8.40   1386     533   34248   7302    100.0    0.460  ! Near Maximum !
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba     74     8.40   1299     468   26192   7643     99.5    0.527

 

[GLOOB]

I realized just how bulky Unique is when I used it for cast rifle loads. A max load (for my particular bullet) of 15 gr of Unique fills a 308 case around 2/3 the way. (And it shoots good, FTR). Compared to my max usable load of H335, which fills the case less than halfway at 24 grains. It sure feels weird using "more" pistol powder than rifle powder.

A full charge of Unique can just barely fit in a 9mm case. That's just about as bulky as you want to get while still being able to pretty much do it all.

 

[Sport45]

Luckily the good Lord was watching over me.
I still have both eyes & all ten fingers & toes.

Not to belittle the message here, but has anyone ever heard of a shooter loosing hands or fingers due to a this type event with a revolver? I haven't.

I think Elmer Keith knew what he was doing when he chose to hop up loads for revolvers. They tend to blow up and out instead of down through the bit the shooter is holding on to.

 

[Slamfire]

Not to belittle the message here, but has anyone ever heard of a shooter loosing hands or fingers due to a this type event with a revolver? I haven't.

I think Elmer Keith knew what he was doing when he chose to hop up loads for revolvers. They tend to blow up and out instead of down through the bit the shooter is holding on to.

Some peoples have a higher risk tolerance than me. Through foolish and risky behavior I have used up eight of my cat lives and I don’t want to assume that luck will keep the last one intact.

 

[Sport45]

Don't get me wrong. I wasn't suggesting that it was safe to overload revolver cartridges. Just that there's probably less risk than overloading autoloader ammunition.

I never exceed published load data and don't advise anyone else to either.

 

[silicosys4]

Not to belittle the message here, but has anyone ever heard of a shooter loosing hands or fingers due to a this type event with a revolver? I haven't.

I think Elmer Keith knew what he was doing when he chose to hop up loads for revolvers. They tend to blow up and out instead of down through the bit the shooter is holding on to.

I have heard of the topstrap breaking off, flying backwards, and hitting the shooter over the right eye, causing stitches. The guy said he felt lucky he could still use his right eye.
On the other hand, I haven't seen any cases of autoloaders doing any significant damage to a shooter, as it vents through the grip in most cases.
tomatoes, tomahtoes

 

[Walkalong]

Either an auto or a revolver can hurt you, or worse, if you blow one up. Please follow load data and be safe.